WFCO 8955-LIS converter woes

[Mark J]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

It looks like Escape gave no thought about what wiring changes were needed to be made to accommodate the lithium batterie(s). Those thermal breakers are the same ones that are used with lead acid batteries with a solar controller and not apropriate for a lithium installation.

Increasing the wire size and adding properly sized overcurrent protection (breakers/fuses) is not a major job and should be done for your trailer. Below is a pic of my wiring where I increased the wire size to the batteries to 6 awg and added a 60 amp fuse 4" from the batteries.

note: ANSI/RVIA code requires that the 60 amp fuse be installed within 7" of the battery terminal.

Thanks for the diagram. I’m pretty certain at this point the problem is with the undersized fuses, so will be upgrading the fuse on that charging line to 60A and the wire as well. Do you think 6 awg is big enough or should I go to 4 awg on that run, assuming there will be times that the converter will be trying to push 55A?

I shudder to think how many lithium-equipped trailers Escape has sold in the past couple years with insufficient wiring and fuses.

The design of the 5.0 is beautiful, but we really shouldn’t have to be rewiring the trailer after one month of ownership. We’ll make it right, though.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Mark J

Thanks for the diagram. I’m pretty certain at this point the problem is with the undersized fuses, so will be upgrading the fuse on that charging line to 60A and the wire as well. Do you think 6 awg is big enough or should I go to 4 awg on that run, assuming there will be times that the converter will be trying to push 55A?

I shudder to think how many lithium-equipped trailers Escape has sold in the past couple years with insufficient wiring and fuses.

The design of the 5.0 is beautiful, but we really shouldn’t have to be rewiring the trailer after one month of ownership. We’ll make it right, though.

6 awg is good for 70 amps - no need for a larger wire. Also, the fuse holder comes with 6 awg wire.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[bborzell]

Not sure that I understand the specifics of the problem here. Is there reason to believe that Escape is routinely installing inadequate wiring/fuses for the full solar and lithium package or is what has been reported in this thread a one off problem on the assembly line for this particular trailer?

[kathytony1985]

Originally Posted by bborzell

Not sure that I understand the specifics of the problem here. Is there reason to believe that Escape is routinely installing inadequate wiring/fuses for the full solar and lithium package or is what has been reported in this thread a one off problem on the assembly line for this particular trailer?

I have the same question. Are we going to have to redo our wiring when we get our new trailer next week?

[tdf-texas]

If your trailer was ordered with the lithium batteries, then yes - you definitely should look at the wiring/fuses from the battery to the battery cutoff switch as it is probably undersized.

Escape has always used a 30 amp thermal breaker in that circuit as the WFCO charging a lead acid battery rarely put out that much current. WIth the lithium batteries, the circuit was not upgraded, the current when charging is higher, and is the reason the OP's charging circuit was tripping.

[kathytony1985]

We ordered the full solar package with 2lithium batteries and 2solar panels.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by kathytony1985

We ordered the full solar package with 2lithium batteries and 2solar panels.

Who knows! Maybe Escape has already corrected this on your trailer as well as moved the front solar panel back to the required 3' from the front to keep it from ripping off in the wind.

But I wouldn't count on it. Sorry if I sound sceptical but I'm still waiting on Escape to correct electrical code violations that I pointed out to them four years ago.

[kathytony1985]

I appreciate your frankness. I have asked about the front solar panel and got a vague answer that it has been corrected. When I asked a specific question regarding the 3' back from the front of the trailer as recommended by Go Power, I got no response. I guess we'll see soon enough.

[bborzell]

I don’t know about roof differences between the 21NE and the 21C which we are scheduled to pick up on 10/29/21, but this is a photo of a 21C being built (not ours) that appears to have the front solar panel mounted low and at least 3’ from the front of the trailer.

[bborzell]

I have also asked for clarification on the question of wiring/fuse changes between the converter for lead acid batteries vs. lithium.

[kathytony1985]

It would be nice to see. Picture of a 21 NE roof. I have read on these forums that the panel can't be put as far back because of the bathroom?

[bborzell]

Originally Posted by kathytony1985

I appreciate your frankness. I have asked about the front solar panel and got a vague answer that it has been corrected. When I asked a specific question regarding the 3' back from the front of the trailer as recommended by Go Power, I got no response. I guess we'll see soon enough.

I asked for a picture of our trailer model with both panels installed. Got it within minutes.

[kathytony1985]

Ours is in the process of being shipped. We should be getting a video and pictures today or tomorrow

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by bborzell

Not sure that I understand the specifics of the problem here. Is there reason to believe that Escape is routinely installing inadequate wiring/fuses for the full solar and lithium package or is what has been reported in this thread a one off problem on the assembly line for this particular trailer?

Originally Posted by bborzell

I have also asked for clarification on the question of wiring/fuse changes between the converter for lead acid batteries vs. lithium.

That is a good question. I tend to lean with tdf-texas that there may be deficiencies based on what some of us know about Escape's past wiring practices and also what it takes to properly implement a lithium-based system. A 30A auto reset circuit breaker in the circuit as posted by the OP is not a good sign. Keep us posted on what you hear from Escape.

[kavm]

We have a 2021 Escape 5.0 with 2 solar panels and 2 lithium batteries that we picked up in late May, 2021. We have not encountered any issues relating to the electrical system. I do not know if it is something awaiting us around the corner or this is a one-off issue with the OP’s camper. Given that we are not comfortable with fiddling with the electrical system, we are planning to let it ride until the need to address it arises…

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by kavm

We have a 2021 Escape 5.0 with 2 solar panels and 2 lithium batteries that we picked up in late May, 2021. We have not encountered any issues relating to the electrical system. I do not know if it is something awaiting us around the corner or this is a one-off issue with the OP’s camper. Given that we are not comfortable with fiddling with the electrical system, we are planning to let it ride until the need to address it arises…

Two conditions have to occur for the wiring to be a problem. First, the lithium batteries have to be fairly low on charge and second, you are using the converter to charge the batteries.

Unless these two conditions happen at the same time, you may never experience the chattering circuit breaker syndrome.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Two conditions have to occur for the wiring to be a problem. First, the lithium batteries have to be fairly low on charge and second, you are using the converter to charge the batteries.

Unless these two conditions happen at the same time, you may never experience the chattering circuit breaker syndrome.

Tom,

Thank you for clarifying that. Our batteries have pretty much always been at 100%. We have seen them below 100% only a couple of times in about 20 days of camping thus far.

Aside from the solar panels, the three ways of charging them are:

• Hookup to the shore power
• The connection to the tow vehicle
• We have a 7.2kW inverter-generator that’s part of our F150

Which of these would involve the use of the converter? We have used the first two so far (in campgrounds with hookups and while towing) without any evident problem. Like I said, I have only seen them below 100% a couple of times, even though we have an electric only compressor refrigerator…

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

Two conditions have to occur for the wiring to be a problem. First, the lithium batteries have to be fairly low on charge and second, you are using the converter to charge the batteries.

Unless these two conditions happen at the same time, you may never experience the chattering circuit breaker syndrome.

Actually, the lithium batteries do not have to be all that low. Even at 85% SOC they will draw the full output of the converter until they reach around 98% SOC.

While the older lead acid based WFCO converter never outputted 55 amps (my 2017 21C had a 30 amp thermal breaker and a 40 amp fuse at the batteries, neither of which ever opened) I have no idea what the new lithium converter produces.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by kavm

Tom,

Thank you for clarifying that. Our batteries have pretty much always been at 100%. We have seen them below 100% only a couple of times in about 20 days of camping thus far.

Aside from the solar panels, the three ways of charging them are:

• Hookup to the shore power
• The connection to the tow vehicle
• We have a 7.2kW inverter-generator that’s part of our F150

Which of these would involve the use of the converter? We have used the first two so far (in campgrounds with hookups and while towing) without any evident problem. Like I said, I have only seen them below 100% a couple of times, even though we have an electric only compressor refrigerator…

First and third: Hookup to the shore power and inverter-generator.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Actually, the lithium batteries do not have to be all that low. Even at 85% SOC they will draw the full output of the converter until they reach around 98% SOC.

While the older lead acid based WFCO converter never outputted 55 amps (my 2017 21C had a 30 amp thermal breaker and a 40 amp fuse at the batteries, neither of which ever opened) I have no idea what the new lithium converter produces.

Thanks Jon. I guess that makes getting the charge wiring/fuses correct even more important than I thought.

Escape really should have someone knowledgeable review their electrical systems when they make changes.