Escape 23 Floor Plans

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

You don't understand the need/want for a dry bath and I don't understand all the brouhaha over an aluminum frame.

I guess we'll both sit and wait for some compelling information. I don't see it happening...

I too am another that really does not understand this. I would much rather have the space for other uses. I asked Karl about this and he does somewhat agree but they had to make a choice of one style and go with it. An option would be nice.

The frame being non-rusting might be a good thing, though imagine the cost is a lot higher.

[huskersteffy]

You don't understand the need/want for a dry bath and I don't understand all the brouhaha over an aluminum frame.

Curious as well.

Is the aluminum frame for weight, no rust or the "me too" factor since that's what Oliver Trailers use. I can maybe see why Oliver uses aluminum since its a true 4-season rig and you might be driving a lot on salted roads.

A while ago someone on this forum posted one downside in that aluminum is trickier to weld. I can't speak to that since I don't know how to weld.

Aluminum is also less forgiving to repeated stress / strain and expansion / contraction. I remember my parents had a Chevy Vega back in the day with an aluminum engine. Nice looking little car but the thing burnt oil like crazy.

[Ron in BC]

Me either, I just can't get excited about the floor plans. That dry bath seems to create a rabbit warren effect. Maybe seeing it in real life would have a different feeling.

Ron

[EscapingDan]

Originally Posted by huskersteffy

Curious as well.

Is the aluminum frame for weight, no rust or the "me too" factor since that's what Oliver Trailers use. I can maybe see why Oliver uses aluminum since its a true 4-season rig and you might be driving a lot on salted roads.

A while ago someone on this forum posted one downside in that aluminum is trickier to weld. I can't speak to that since I don't know how to weld.

TIG welding is different but so what? That’s just a small manufacturing issue and not rocket science. For rust I would go with steel over aluminum because it’s not straight aluminum, it’s still got a steel undercarriage (they buy the steel axels from I forget which company). Galvanic bleed is worse than rust so you have to engineer against it. Therefore you need an electrical insulation between the two frames (which may wear or otherwise develop pinholes or electrical paths), or you need a sacrificial anode which requires maintenance. Yeah water, salt and a part of the trailer you don’t look at without getting dirty, recipe for rust.

Speaking as an engineer this is all complicated and as I point out doesn’t help you (despite the marketing), the real reason I bet is to cut out weight. Oliver is a heavy trailer for the size due to that crazy double hull, the aluminum has nothing to due to with ‘quality’ (more marketing). With Escape they advertise as easy to tow, I bet they had to cut weight here on a 23 to keep it within reason.

Steel is great. Easy to repair and just inspect your undercarriage once a year and wire wheel down any spots and repaint. And imagine you’re out in the boondocks and discover a hairline crack in your frame from that pothole. Steel? No problem, any monkey with a stick welder can patch that up for you. TIG? Much harder to find.

[MichaelS78]

I'm curious why so many feel the 23 will be so much more expensive than the other trailers? When the 21 came out did people think it would be twice as expensive as the 19? It's only about 10% more. Even if they upped the cost of the most expensive trailer (5.0ta) by 20% that still only puts it at $48,500 USD or $60,000 CAD if they were releasing tomorrow.

[Fender]

I suspect that those who have used a wet bath don't see why a dry bath seems to be such an issue but I know that when we were shopping for a trailer the absence of a separate shower was probably our #1 concern.
Now, of course, we don't consider it a big issue but I bet that ETI does research on why people might select another brand and I bet the bathroom is the main reason why someone might select another brand.

[Selkirk]

I fully understand that a dry bath is a very important feature for a large number of potential customers. I just don't understand why. What's the reason for the strong aversion to wet baths?

I looked at a couple of smaller "conventional" 7' wide no-slide trailers in the 18-21' range with dry baths prior to deciding on an Escape. To me, it felt like the dry bath models really sacrifice the useable living space compared to a similar size trailer with a wet bath.

[brain]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

and I don't understand all the brouhaha over an aluminum frame...

To me the aluminum frame is a solution looking for a problem.

[brroberts]

I’ve had both dry and wet baths in previous RV’s, as well as RV’s without baths. I prefer a dry bath, but all RV’s are a set of compromises. The E19 has the fewest compromises for me. My preference is also for Escape, Bigfoot, or Oliver. I’d probably not seriously consider anything else I currently know about. I bought an Escape 19. You need to get what works best for you, and part of that includes cost.

[MrLynn]

The dry bath is a selling point, and I assumed it was better than wet. But, what might be best is a much larger wet bath. The one in our 21C is pretty small, I think smaller than our Casita's was.

[oldwave]

The walk around bed is the more important feature to us given the difficulty in making the bed in a 21c
Dry bath is secondary

When we bought our 21c I was on the fence on the 50
If we had got it I suspect we would have kept it
Now the wait is too long and the 23 is still vaporwear for now

Our Bigfoot is supposed to be delivered the end of October
A year wait

[BobCS]

Frequent reader and very rare writer here. Time for me to add my two cents.

I've been on the E23 wait list since it began, and have followed the development since it was rumored. I bought a Casita 17 brand new in late 2002 and still use it. Back then neither the wet bath nor the crawl-over bed were issues. Nearly 20 years later, they both are. Casita shower is great when we need it but it is a real nuisance to move out all the "stuff" we keep in there, wipe it down, and move everything back in. As for the bed, let's just say the middle of the night trips occur more regularly now.

Like everyone else on the wait list, we wonder how long it's going to be. We looked at a Bigfoot 25. It's very nice, but it's also big, heavy, and pricey. We've decided that we either keep the Casita or buy an E23. Since we have the first already we can keep on camping while we wait.

Hope this helps people understand why some of us are still excited to see E23 progress, as slow as it is.

Bob Smucker

[oldwave]

Originally Posted by BobCS

Frequent reader and very rare writer here. Time for me to add my two cents.

I've been on the E23 wait list since it began, and have followed the development since it was rumored. I bought a Casita 17 brand new in late 2002 and still use it. Back then neither the wet bath nor the crawl-over bed were issues. Nearly 20 years later, they both are. Casita shower is great when we need it but it is a real nuisance to move out all the "stuff" we keep in there, wipe it down, and move everything back in. As for the bed, let's just say the middle of the night trips occur more regularly now.

Like everyone else on the wait list, we wonder how long it's going to be. We looked at a Bigfoot 25. It's very nice, but it's also big, heavy, and pricey. We've decided that we either keep the Casita or buy an E23. Since we have the first already we can keep on camping while we wait.



Hope this helps people understand why some of us are still excited to see E23 progress, as slow as it is.

Bob Smucker

I expect you’ll find the 23 to be in the same price range as the Bigfoot
Though lighter and not as well insulated.

I’m not concerned about weight and size at this stage of life, but comfort. We don’t have the time to wait for a 23, life is moving along.

Given the news ok KV moving the Fiberglass boat manufacture to Texas, I’m wondering if there will be a similar Escape move? Not a criticism just a curiosity

[Eggscape]

We had a dry bath and put a rod across the top to hang our coats. When shower time came coats and rod went on the bed. This way it was not a complete waste of space.

We just camp with our trailer and don’t live in it so for us the 19 is plenty big enough.

[AnJ]

As a family of four with a dog, we have been curious about the 23, and discussed it after wrapping up a 10 day road trip. From a family perspective, not a lot changes from our 21. Mom and dad get the bigger bed (dinette in the 23’s case) and the kids get half the trailer once they go to bed. We also noted that when we made the dinette into a bed at night, a flat sheet would have to be used due to the awkward angle of the bed. The wet/ dry bath make no difference to us and we found there to still be plenty of storage for a 10 day trip for us in our 21. A game changer in our interest in a 23 would be more sleeping room, like maybe a small couch/ sofa bed in place of the separate bath areas. Maybe they will come out with more floor plans in the future.

[TTMartin]

I'm not sure why people have an aversion to a wet bath. My previous trailer had a dry bath and I actually like the wet bath better. I typically shower last, so after I finish my shower, i take the washcloth and wipe down the top half of the shower. Then I open the curtain get the towel off the inside of the door dry myself off. Then open the door and wipe down the bottom half. Then I put the thin bamboo mat back in. Washcloth is only used once and then washed in bleach.

The advantage of the 23 is the walk around queen bed or two twins.

I went with the 19 because I wanted a small trailer, so the 23 doesn't have much appeal to me.

[DeanCHS1980]

Hi Jake930 & All,

Interesting thread. Laura and I are currently still very happy with our 2005 Casita 17 FD that we purchased in November, 2015. I don’t see us changing trailers in the next 2.5 years until we both turn 62. I was lucky to retire early (June 30, 20210, but one minor consequence was no new toys until 62. However, Laura and I spend much time thinking about a new setup (tow vehicle and trailer). Our aspirational rigs would be an Escape 23, an Oliver Elite II 23.5 (we live 2.5 hours from Hohenwald), or a Safari Condo Alto 24 (yes, I know, not an egg camper, but. . .).

If we were to design our “perfect” floor plan, it would be the Escape 23. Enter behind the axle to living space, split walk/through bathroom, and a walk around bed or twins at the front “isolated” from the living space. Perfect (for us)! The downsides to the Escape 23 - You can’t defy physics. All that lovely interior space comes at a price of 7’11” wide. It has a larger footprint than what we would like, ideally. Also, I think the price will be a major issue. Of course, that is the same with the Oliver and the Safari Condo Alto along with most purchases these days.

For this reason, our #4 choice for a new trailer would be the Escape 21C. There is much to like about the 21 and we really like the footprint despite there being some issues with the floor plan (placement of the bed), but maybe not a deal breaker.

Of course, we will be watching prices of trailers and campers over the next couple of years. In the meantime, we love our Casita (no payment) and our 2009 Kia Borrego V8 (with 148,000 miles, but no payment). At some point, the Borg will need to be replaced, so a tow vehicle will take precedence over a trailer. Thus, we may have to do the tow vehicle first and then decide about a new trailer.

In the meantime, it is fun to talk and dream about the future. The Escape 23 is part of that conversation for us.

Happy Camping to All,

Dean

[SquirrelsGoneWild]

I've been on the 23 waitlist since it opened, though I'm still waiting for the final prototypes, price, and build sheets before deciding on a 19 F2, 21NE F2, or a 23. My partner and I both work remotely now, and anticipate spending more time on the road with our new flexibility. As a result, we are looking for more space than our 17B provides.

The dry bath is nice but hardly a deal-breaker for me, though my partner prefers a larger shower without as much clutter. The aluminum frame is similarly not a deal breaker, though it does help the 23 weight stay comfortably within our towing capacity.

The biggest selling point for the 23 is the twin bed setup. For several reasons we don't share beds, and in our current 17B we have to put the large (and sometimes small if we are working) table up and down every day, which adds up over time. With the twin bed setup in the 23, we would not have to convert beds, and we would also have an option for guests to sleep on the dining table bed. We could also close off the bedroom area if we both have meetings, and it would keep our cat out at night on the uncommon occasions that we bring her along. That said, the 23 is a larger camper than we prefer, and the price could be a deal-breaker.

[Little Richie]

We have a 5.0 and I’m very happy with it. We got it primarily because I could stand up in it and not hit my head. (6‘4“) My wife looked at my face when I stood up inside and indicated that this was it. ( The 21 is too low inside. ) In addition, I really like the width of the 5.0 when driving.

If we were shopping, the width would be a big negative for me. I actually like the wet bath. My wife would like a dry one. If we were in the market, I would defer to her wishes on this. The point in the commentary- unless you travel alone, I suspect many partners would like a wet bath an consequently, it could be a big selling point for many.

[CatK]

Originally Posted by Jake930

So watching the latest video from Karl on the 23, and looking at the floor plans. That with the separate bath and shower there is not much if any more usable space than in the 21.
I guess the big draw is the dry bath. That would not be a deal sealer for me. I’m perfectly fine with the wet bath. I’m interested to know others opinions.

A longer kitchen and symmetrical dinette would be better than a separate inside shower.