New Escape, weak brakes?

[MichaelS78]

At about 200 miles with our new 21NE. Planning on adjusting the brakes this weekend. Wondering if I need to also inspect for issues because we've been on 2 trips now and haven't been able to get the brakes to lock up. Brake controller set to max. It does slow down the tow vehicle. I've confirmed 12volts at the 7 pin when manual control set to max.

Emailed ETI after first trip and Dustin said they probably haven't seated yet and need to make numerous hard stops. The Dexter manual says burnishing requires 20-30 brake applications going down from 40mph to 20mph. I've done that along with gone another 120 or so miles on a second trip. Didn't make much of a change.

Is this normal? After adjusting brakes should I just give it more time to burnish in or do you recommend checking voltage under the trailer? Does this sound like there might be an issue? We leave on a longer trip next Thursday and will be traveling 300 miles to a campground. As long as the trailer is slowing the tow vehicle when manually applying brake control, should we be fine to go on the trip or should the trailer definitely be able to lock up the brakes?

[Rossue]

Here is a video from Lippert- The Proper Way to Burnish your Trailer Brakes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9HDloz9fq8

[Rossue]

You want to be able to lock up the brakes on gravel- not pavement.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Here is a video from Lippert- The Proper Way to Burnish your Trailer Brakes:

I've watched that video but wondered if it was only meant for Lippert brakes. Seems like a much more aggressive technique to burnish in the brakes (using manual slide on brake controller to slow down trailer and tv). I've been doing it off and on when on our trips but maybe I need to do it over and over like in the video. To build up the heat and actually burnish.

[MichaelS78]

Originally Posted by Rossue

You want to be able to lock up the brakes on gravel- not pavement.

First I've heard you don't want to be able to lock up the brakes on dry pavement. All my research has suggested you want to be able to lock up on dry pavement and then you dial the brake control back a bit from there.

[Rossue]

I first saw the gravel road @ 25 mph on this forum, yet couldn't find it. I do see it on Airforums however. https://www.airforums.com/forums/f43...in-176087.html

I do see on RV life them doing so on pavement too. Seems the gravel is easier to detect a lock up vs. pavement, and you don't burn the rubber like pavement will.

The Lippert video isn't for Lippert brakes only; the electric brakes from Dexter work the same.

[Iowa Dave]

Give me a brake!

I just put new brake sets on our 21. I adjusted them so far out the wheel and tire would not spin, one at a time. Then I backed the adjuster off a few notches and got the wheel to spin and I could hear the shoes make partial contact with the drums. High spot ——Low spot. Then I went out with the trailer to burnish the brakes. I had my controller set to the same setting as it was on the old brakes. No trailer brakes on 4.0 but when I stopped and Rita applied the brakes, I got out and stood by the wheel, I could hear the magnets trying to actuate the lever. Gave up for the night (outside). Back in the house, Read up on the brakes, watched a few videos. Next day made sure that I had the Tekonsha p-3 set right for T-1 and Boost on 1. Out on the county blacktops again. Turned the setting up and up and up. Finally at 12.0 got good braking. Burnished the brakes as per instructions. Did not slide the tires on paving but it would slide them on gravel. Came home satisfied I was safe. However, I’m going to adjust them again to take any slack up. I’ll do this in about 250 miles a couple weeks from now.

In retrospect and deep in thought, why did it take so much more power? Below is a picture of the new brake set next to the old one. Note that the original set had two springs one for each shoe. The new set has only one spring and it’s a hell of a lot bigger than the original, is engineered differently, and would take more power to actuate in my opinion. I’m satisfied with that conclusion, right or wrong.

As a side note, the used brakes I replaced were original to the trailer and had way more than 60,000miles on the trailer. The previous owner used it from 2013 late season, till mid summer 2017. Then we bought it. And I’ve towed a recorded 40,000 plus miles. I am easy on brakes as a general rule. Took the Highlander in for an inspection two weeks ago. Had 50 percent pad left and have 95,000 miles on the 2018 Highlander.
That’s my brakes story and I’m sticking to it. On the brake set (Dexter) there is a manufacturing date stamp so if you buy a used trailer and want to know the age and thickness of the shoes you have left, an inspection that you can do yourself is easily possible.
Your milage, stopping distance, wear and tear will be relative to how you drive, where you drive, how often you adjust your brakes, using the transmission to hold her back going down the mountain, and several other factors. Just like your go milage (gas milage) there’s a stop milage (brake wear). As I see it.
Iowa Dave

1. Upper left : Old set and new set
2. Upper Right: Stamped manufactured date on brake set frame. Our 21 was the 6th one off the line after three prototypes ( aug 13 stamp)
3. Lower left: Original set with well over 60K on them probably closer to 80K
4. Lower right: Grease on bearing that had been packed 27,000 miles ago. Would have gone a lot farther.
Good Camping to you.

[MichaelS78]

Ok sounds like I need to go find a gravel road and at least confirm its locking up there at 25mph.

The parking pad next to the house is gravel and I've had my wife watch while I slid the manual brake control up to max while parking it. Both rear tires locked but not the front two. I didn't think much of this test since it was going very slowly.

[gbaglo]

I don't use 'boost' with my P2 and 17B Escape.

[Iowa Dave]

Hi Glenn
Our 21 weighs 4,360 lbs. loaded and the Highlander about 5,800 so the B-1 works pretty good for me. I could go to B-2 but they get grabby. I like to think the trailer can take care of its own braking needs.
Iowa Dave

[Rossue]

Hey Dave! You mean Highlander is maybe 4800 lbs.? 5800 lbs. is more than my Expedition.
https://www.google.com/search?q=2018...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Iowa Dave]

Yes I think you’re right. I am not sure why I typed 5,800. I think I had a mental picture of the scale reading when I weigh in pulling my 12’X7’ utility trailer when I go to the quarry for sand or river stone. The trailer weighs right at a thousand. So 5,800 would be right for that combo. It’s a single 3,500 lb. axle, all metal with a wood deck. I usually have them put on about a ton over the wheels.

B-1 when towing the Escape seems to work the best. No brakes on the utility trailer and the biggest trip it’s ever taken was 100 miles when I hauled a big standup video game (TRON) and a jukebox (ROWI) back from an auction in Des Moines. Otherwise about 30 miles round trip to the quarry or 25 miles out to the farm for firewood.
Iowa Dave

[Doug2000]

I usually check the brakes on a gravel road a couple times a summer with my wife watching each side. Other than that, I have never had an issue.

Before a big trip I usually put the front axle up on blocks, give the tire a shake and pull the emergency release pin just like Angie does in this video. I then do the same for the rear axle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mevU_y5oX04

[LtDan]

We just pulled our new 21C home 3200 miles, when we left I had the brake controller set all the way up and still didn’t have the brake power I expected. By the time we got home they seem to be working fine.
I have not read up on them but do they self adjust like older auto drum brakes by applying brake going backwards?

[Iowa Dave]

There are self adjusting electric brakes made by Dexter and there are the manual adjust models. If you bought your trailer new, and did not specify or pay extra for self adjusting, you probably don’t have them. I don’t keep up on the specifications for new trailers so I don’t know if Escape offers them. Burnishing them through application of brakes does make a difference in shoe to drum contact.
Iowa Dave

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by LtDan

We just pulled our new 21C home 3200 miles, when we left I had the brake controller set all the way up and still didn’t have the brake power I expected. By the time we got home they seem to be working fine.
I have not read up on them but do they self adjust like older auto drum brakes by applying brake going backwards?

Dan: You probably do not have the Dexter Nev-R-Adjust version of the brakes. I have not heard that Escape uses them stock. That said I would jack the trailer up and using the little opening at the backside of each brake I would spoon the brakes up to where the shoes just start to make contact with the drum. Then drive and recheck. I bet your braking is better. Eloquently described by Iowa Dave above.

[Iowa Dave]

On the backside of your backing plate there are two small oval openings at the bottoms of the plates. They may or may not have dust and dirt and sand black plastic plugs in them. They pry off pretty easily with a small screwdriver, don’t mess up your manicure. Only one aligns with the star wheel that turns to tighten or loosen the shoes to the drums. The other slot does not. So when you figure out which one lines up with the star wheel you can mark it for the next time you adjust the brakes. I use a paint pen in yellow. Next to the outside of the “good” slot I make an arrow and above the arrow I make a letter T for “tighter” and at the bottom I make an L for “Loosen”. Then I put the dust plugs back when I’m done adjusting. If you don’t have plugs you can buy them at a Dexter dealer or at an auto parts store. If you change backing plates you save the nuts from the back of the plates that hold them to the axle and you save the plugs. After 50 years you will be a hoarder like me. Or if somebody needs some you give them away and mention it to your spouse thinking that she will have hope that you’re changing. But you’re not.
Iowa Dave

[Illinois Joe]

Originally Posted by MichaelS78

At about 200 miles with our new 21NE. Planning on adjusting the brakes this weekend. Wondering if I need to also inspect for issues because we've been on 2 trips now and haven't been able to get the brakes to lock up. Brake controller set to max. It does slow down the tow vehicle. I've confirmed 12volts at the 7 pin when manual control set to max.

Emailed ETI after first trip and Dustin said they probably haven't seated yet and need to make numerous hard stops. The Dexter manual says burnishing requires 20-30 brake applications going down from 40mph to 20mph. I've done that along with gone another 120 or so miles on a second trip. Didn't make much of a change.

Is this normal? After adjusting brakes should I just give it more time to burnish in or do you recommend checking voltage under the trailer? Does this sound like there might be an issue? We leave on a longer trip next Thursday and will be traveling 300 miles to a campground. As long as the trailer is slowing the tow vehicle when manually applying brake control, should we be fine to go on the trip or should the trailer definitely be able to lock up the brakes?

I had a very similar experience when I picked up my 21NE in Sumas last summer. No brakes at first, skid test on gravel and no skid, crank up controller gain to max. Should have done burnishing but didn't know about it. Stopped at Ford and trailer brake controller working fine per test module simulator. After a few hundred miles the trailer brakes started working enough that I could now feel them grabbing. Started reducing my brake controller gain and over the next few days I had reduced the controller gain down from 10 (max) to 4. Brakes now working well at 4 setting for next several thousand miles. When I got home I did jack up trailer and spun wheels and heard a slight rubbing on high side as described by other posters. One thing that did trip me up in doing a skid test is that the trailer brake controller (built in, stock) in my F150 has programming that prevents the controller from locking trailer brakes at slow speeds, even when using the manual slide switch. So no tire skidding on gravel when only going 5 mph or so. I think this may be common with many(?) new brake controllers, maybe other forum members could explain this better.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

On the backside of your backing plate there are two small oval openings at the bottoms of the plates. They may or may not have dust and dirt and sand black plastic plugs in them. They pry off pretty easily with a small screwdriver, don’t mess up your manicure. Only one aligns with the star wheel that turns to tighten or loosen the shoes to the drums. The other slot does not. So when you figure out which one lines up with the star wheel you can mark it for the next time you adjust the brakes. I use a paint pen in yellow. Next to the outside of the “good” slot I make an arrow and above the arrow I make a letter T for “tighter” and at the bottom I make an L for “Loosen”. Then I put the dust plugs back when I’m done adjusting. If you don’t have plugs you can buy them at a Dexter dealer or at an auto parts store. If you change backing plates you save the nuts from the back of the plates that hold them to the axle and you save the plugs. After 50 years you will be a hoarder like me. Or if somebody needs some you give them away and mention it to your spouse thinking that she will have hope that you’re changing. But you’re not.
Iowa Dave

Hi: Iowa Dave... "Them's the brakes"!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[MichaelS78]

Thanks everyone for the input. It's appreciated.

I have two questions:

1) I'm going to be doing the brake adjustment today. Do you recommend first taking the trailer out once more and try the burnishing technique in the lippert video linked above. Applying manual brake controller slide 20 to 50 times to slow tv and trailer down from 40 to 20mph and testing temperature of each drum for 350-400 degrees. I have a temperature gun. I ask because Dexter manual says brakes are supposed to be seated before adjusting...

2) Any chance I've damaged the magnets since I've towed the trailer for 200 miles now with brake controller set to max gain. If so how would I know? If I did damage them will it become obvious they need replacing in a way that isn't dangerous while towing?

Just trying to be safe since we are taking the trailer over Snoqualmie pass heading to Spokane Washington next week.