replacement refrigerator for Escape 21C

[CharlesPou]

thanks for reply Ron, I guess you know, but the new compressor refrigerators are DC, don't need inverter, unless I totally don't understand. so, I'm assuming no parasitic draw? I guess time for me to do some research to compare gas absorption to new DC compressor refrigerators?

my main concern is getting another gas absorption refrigerator that in a few years no repair parts are available, my current experience. or not being able to get one anyway. time to get educated IMO. cheers

[Eggscape]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I just did a little experiment that probably served no useful purpose at all. I did it because I had several items just sitting there and I was curious.

I had a 100Ah lithium battery, a 1500 watt inverter, and a 110 volt bar fridge just begging me to try a little experiment. Filled the ice cube tray and put a couple of water filled containers in the fridge.

It ran for 19 hours continuously and took the battery down to 40%. Very inefficient because the inverter has just over 1 amp parasitic draw even when the compressor is off cycle.

I probably should have hooked up a 100 amp panel to it. Probably would have noticeably reduced the recharging requirement.

In your case I can't see going with a compressor fridge unless you have a minimum of 200 watts of solar and probably more if you look at what others have done.


Having said that I do think that it's easy to get carried away going whole hog and get into overkill. If you're willing to use your generator from time to time if solar isn't providing enough you could probably go with a less costly system than some.

Ron

A good friend of mine uses a 120 volt bar fridge in his cargo trailer conversion. The fridge was cheap and a replacement is available at each Walmart he passes.

He decided to put the money he saved into extra batteries and a roof full of solar.

He uses a cheap but separate thermal switch that turns on and off a dedicated inverter so there is next to no loss during the off time. He is very happy with the results as he has used propane fridges in the past that have failed and we’re expensive to replace.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

thanks for reply Ron, I guess you know, but the new compressor refrigerators are DC, don't need inverter, unless I totally don't understand. so, I'm assuming no parasitic draw? I guess time for me to do some research to compare gas absorption to new DC compressor refrigerators?

my main concern is getting another gas absorption refrigerator that in a few years no repair parts are available, my current experience. or not being able to get one anyway. time to get educated IMO. cheers

I absolutely do understand that the RV fridges are DC. As I said, I had the 3 items and knew that they wouldn't be ideal for RV use, but I was just curious how it would work out.

Actually, the battery did better than I thought it'd do and the inverter was massive overkill, a smaller one would have likely had less parasitic draw.

It's a draw for me thinking about the choice between using propane or DC. Probably because my current fridge works so well and has been trouble free I'd sort of lean towards staying with propane. Having said that I had years of good service from a NovaKool DC unit on my boat without either solar or lithium and with lithium and solar it'd likely be quite usable.

Glad that I'm not in a position where I have to make that decision, I really don't know which way I'd go.

Ron

[CharlesPou]

hello Ron, I see you have 2019 Escape 21C. check your refrigerator, I wouldn't be surprised if same as mine, Dometic DM2663? mine worked flawless for over 5 years, then apparently circuit board failed. hope you don't have same issue? cheers

[CharlesPou]

I did some research comparing new DC compressor RV refrigerators to 3 way refrigerators. peeps that have the new compressor style seem to really like them and think it's the way to go. note: generally pro DC compressor refrigerator types were loaded up with solar and lithium batteries. very hard to pend down how would work with my setup, i.e. no solar, no lithium batteries, but my impression is wouldn't work that great, unless I spent a ton to add solar and lithium batteries. only good news, appears I wouldn't need to add inverter, converter would still be all I needed, with new DC compressor refrigerator..

other things I learned since my refrigerator doesn't run on propane. 1st I probably don't need to run refrigerator on propane while traveling. with lame refrigerator, I couldn't run it anyway, and found after traveling during the day, refrigerator was still fairly cool, stuff in freezer was still frozen, after being off for 6 to 8 hours. if next camping spot had shore power, no worries, just plug in and refrigerator would cool down overnight. situation is different if next camping spot doesn't have shore power, and has quiet time overnight. then can easily have to go pretty much a full day 24 hours, before allowed to get out generator and start running refrigerator again. not great, but was survivable with some planning and moving frozen ice packs from freezer to refrigerator overnight. then refreezing ice packs during the day when was able to run generator again. actually, running generator for just refrigerator is big hassle, wouldn't want to be my normal setup long term but was OK temporary.

other thing I maybe learned is bigger refrigerator is maybe not an advantage, unless you keep it full. by myself, 6 cf is overkill, I'm not using 1/2 of my freezer and often same for refrigerator, except just after shopping. I learned, seems correct, that a full refrigerator works better than one 1/2 empty, because once everything is down to temperature, the mass in the refrigerator helps to keep the refrigerator cool after you open the door, plus there is less air escaping when you open the door. so I'm rethinking size of refrigerator on next trailer, especially if I get new compressor DC version.

so, in conclusion, I need to either get my current refrigerator fixed, or have another 3 way refrigerator installed. new compressor DC refrigerator is no go for me. any and all comments welcomed. cheers

[Jacob Brown]

We also had issues with ours and replaced it with a 12v refrigerator for rv that I found on the BougeRV site. We chose a CRD55 model that has all the needed features, including car battery protection, dual independent compartments, which make it serve as both a fridge and freezer, a 2-year warranty, ECO mode (the working power is less than 45W), and MAX mode (the power consumption of its smart cycle operation is well below 1kWh per day), and app control (you can control temperature, modes, and power directly from your phone). We are happy with the purchase.

[John in Santa Cruz]

I've had my Norcold N2175 for like 2 years noiw. yes, I have a larger than original Lithium battery, 2 x 206AH for 5200 watt hours. and yes, I upgraded my factory solar from 160W to 360W by replacing it with a bigger panel and swappout out the PWM solar controller for a Victron MPPT controller.

I dry camp quite a bit. We have gone a week with the camper in deep shade and still had 40% battery left. My solar panel can recharge about 2000-2400 watt*hours per day with all day sunshine. The N2175 compressor fridge uses around 450 watt*hours per day, thats well less than 2 amps average.

oh, the N2175 was an exact fit for the RMD8555 that came in my 2014 E21 classic.

[CharlesPou]

hello John, your comment is good example of what confuses me. so, batteries are rated amps and appliances use watts? or vice versa lols. I know regular lead acid batteries should not be drawn down less than 50%, but lithium can go much lower, so 100 amp hour lithium is maybe equivalent to 200 amp hour lead acid battery.

so say your refrigerator uses 450 watt hours a day which is less than 2 amps average (which you did say), can you say ratio of watt hours used to amp hours needed ratio is approx 225 watt hours to 1 amp?, probably not that easy lols. any and all comments welcomed. cheers

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

hello John, your comment is good example of what confuses me. so, batteries are rated amps and appliances use watts? or vice versa lols. I know regular lead acid batteries should not be drawn down less than 50%, but lithium can go much lower, so 100 amp hour lithium is maybe equivalent to 200 amp hour lead acid battery.

so say your refrigerator uses 450 watt hours a day which is less than 2 amps average (which you did say), can you say ratio of watt hours used to amp hours needed ratio is approx 225 watt hours to 1 amp?, probably not that easy lols. any and all comments welcomed. cheers

Here you go:
Watts Formula
How watts are calculated: Watts = Amps x Volts

Examples:

10 Amps x 120 Volts = 1200 Watts
5 Amps x 240 Volts = 1200 Watts
Amps Formula
How amps are calculated: Amps = Watts / Volts

Examples:

3600 Watts / 240 Volts = 15 Amps
4160 Watts / 208 Volts = 20 Amps
Volts Forumla
How volts are calculated: Volts = Watts / Amps

Examples:

2400 Watts / 20 Amps = 120 Volts
2400 Watts / 10 Amps = 240 Volts

[CharlesPou]

talked with authorized Dometic service center this morning. they want to replace refrigerator, old unit is not fixable, parts not available. maybe 1 to 2 weeks to get new refrigerator, so maybe 2 weeks to 1 month to get trailer back with new refrigerator. I told them, need to think about, and want to pickup trailer, which I will do early next week.

so my plan: get trailer back and call Dinosaur with board p/n from black plastic cover. if they say have board, then order. hopefully, Dinosaur board will fix. if Dinosaur says don't have board, then I take trailer back to service center and get new refrigerator, easy-peasy.

after shock from phone call with service center, I didn't get refrigerator details, but plenty of time to get that later. pretty sure another Dometic. I have communicated with Escape for recommendations: contacted their service department 2 times via their website, and 2 emails with their customer service representative. no replies yet?, no comments about that lols. cheers

[CharlesPou]

I think John's refrigerator is new DC compressor, so 12 volts. " The N2175 compressor fridge uses around 450 watt*hours per day, thats well less than 2 amps average."

12 volts X amps = 450 watts, so I guess he's using approx 38 amps? with my 2 6volt batteries might have 220 to 240 amp hours fully charged, so maybe 100 amp hours usable. so, I could run John's refrigerator approx 3 days without charging?, or is my math messed up? plus John is saying 2 amp hours a day, but my math is saying 38 amp hours a day. what's up?

so next question: how much solar do I need for 38 amp hours a day?, I know depends of many variables? cheers

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by CharlesPou

I think John's refrigerator is new DC compressor, so 12 volts. " The N2175 compressor fridge uses around 450 watt*hours per day, thats well less than 2 amps average."

12 volts X amps = 450 watts, so I guess he's using approx 38 amps? with my 2 6volt batteries might have 220 to 240 amp hours fully charged, so maybe 100 amp hours usable. so, I could run John's refrigerator approx 3 days without charging?, or is my math messed up? plus John is saying 2 amp hours a day, but my math is saying 38 amp hours a day. what's up?

so next question: how much solar do I need for 38 amp hours a day?, I know depends of many variables? cheers

38 amp*HOURS a day is 38/24 hours = 1.6 amps average, which I rounded to 2.

btw, 220 AH *golf cart* battery is good for more than 100AH usable. These are true deep cycle lead acid batteries, and can be drained to 66% or even 75% 100s of times as long as they are recharged within a few days. So your battery has a total of 220AH of which maybe 165AH is usable, which is almost 2000 Watt*Hours. so you get around 4+ days. a couple 100 watt solar panel, and some sunshine, and you can go forever.

Its the automotive and 'marine-rv' style 12V lead acid batteries which don't tolerate repeated discharge below 50%.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

38 amp*HOURS a day is 38/24 hours = 1.6 amps average, which I rounded to 2.
...

At the risk of making things worse, instead of better....


An AMP is instantaneous. Or in other words - "right now".


An AMP-HOUR is measured over 1 hour. No reason we couldn't use AMP-MINUTE or AMP-DAY, except that HOUR is a comfortable time to work with.



Batteries are measured with AMPs, AMP-HOURs, or WATT-HOURs, and all are useful but for slightly different purposes. (For Watts you need to use the battery voltage, which for our Escapes is always 12.)

[John in Santa Cruz]

the *hour ratings are the total capacity of the battery. an amp rating is either actual usage or the max output of the battery (for example CCA, cold cranking amps)

[CharlesPou]

thanks for comments, very helpful understanding a little more about solar, thanks. cheers