Sudden loss of 12V

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by padlin

If you only show 3.3 volts, the bolt may not be a good ground. Isn't there a grounding bolt on the back of the converter?

No idea. I put a picture of it above somewhere. There are a bunch of black wires and I have no idea what's what.

But I'm going to try finding where the 12V switch was and checking for loose wires first. I'll get a longer ground wire to check the ground.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Bobbie54

There are a bunch of black wires and I have no idea what's what.

It sort of doesn't matter if you're referring to the negative buss on the converter. Many ground leads converge and are attached to the same ground. It doesn't matter if you know which ground belongs to whatever. As long as that bunch of grounds are, in effect, well grounded to the battery negative terminal.

Ron

[Rossue]

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ght-11129.html

Again- likely cause is poor trailer ground to frame. I would remove, scrape and reattach. Then maybe go the extra step if resolved for elimination of same in future.

[75thRanger]

What's up with the 3.3v reading in places? I noticed that when I was trying to find reason for fridge not working. Came across it when checking fuses and heat cut off switch in back of fridge.

Dometic finally replaced the fridge and I forgot about the 3.3 until reading about it here.

[steve dunham]

Looking at the wiring diagram in this thread the frame is only bonded to the negative side of the battery and the frame is not used as a circuit conductor ( Escape runs 2 wires to each DC load )
So even if the bond wire to the frame was defective the lights , water pump , furnace , refrigerator etc should still work
( Electric tongue jack would be an exception)

We are making the troubleshooting of this issue unnecessarily complicated IMHO

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Looking at the wiring diagram in this thread the frame is only bonded to the negative side of the battery and the frame is not used as a circuit conductor ( Escape runs 2 wires to each DC load )
So even if the bond wire to the frame was defective the lights , water pump , furnace , refrigerator etc should still work
( Electric tongue jack would be an exception)

We are making the troubleshooting of this issue unnecessarily complicated IMHO

Negative, I might say. At least on my 2014 19. As I said, the battery negative went to frame. There was no second negative cable. The frame was used as a conductor for 18" and then a second negative went to the converter.

Also, the brake negatives from each set of axles were screwed to the frame.

Since I view using screws to the frame as possible sources of problems due to corrosion and reducing reliability of the path to ground I installed a buss terminal and ran all grounds to it including a buss wire that picked up the two brake grounds. This eliminated using any part of the frame as a return circuit. The frame is still bonded but not a required circuit path.

Sometime after this ETI stopped using that short length of frame as a conductor on the path from the battery negative to the converter negative.

So I'd say anyone with a 2014 and older unit should check the negative path for high resistance. Anyone with suspected brake problems should check the two ground connections to the frame.

Ron

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by Rossue

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ght-11129.html

Again- likely cause is poor trailer ground to frame. I would remove, scrape and reattach. Then maybe go the extra step if resolved for elimination of same in future.

Can't I just cut and attach to a different, clean spot?

But I'm going to unwrap first and look for a loose connection as the intermittency suggests something loose. Just waiting for a good time to work under the trailer (no glare from morning sun, not too hot, joints willing to bend...) Plus previous owner thinks he may have just removed the on-off switch and spliced so checking that splice is next.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Negative, I might say. At least on my 2014 19. As I said, the battery negative went to frame. There was no second negative cable. The frame was used as a conductor for 18" and then a second negative went to the converter.

Also, the brake negatives from each set of axles were screwed to the frame.

Since I view using screws to the frame as possible sources of problems due to corrosion and reducing reliability of the path to ground I installed a buss terminal and ran all grounds to it including a buss wire that picked up the two brake grounds. This eliminated using any part of the frame as a return circuit. The frame is still bonded but not a required circuit path.
Sometime after this ETI stopped using that short length of frame as a conductor on the path from the battery negative to the converter negative.

So I'd say anyone with a 2014 and older unit should check the negative path for high resistance. Anyone with suspected brake problems should check the two ground connections to the frame.

Ron

Ron I was wrong and I apologize

Using the frame as a return path or as a negative bus bar is not best practice and is an open invitation to failure . I assumed Escape would have used best practice wiring methods and my assumption was wrong
Self drilling screws were never acceptable for making an electrical connection
We always drilled a hole , tapped threads into the metal (NF) , scraped off the paint , and bolted the connection / lug using pentrox electrical grease on the bolt threads and metal surface .
I have never been thrilled with Escapes wiring methods / short cuts and I will let it go at that

[Bobbie54]

OK, pulled the fuses to check. (3 15 amp and 1 20 amp for the fridge). All look good. But when I pulled the upper of the 2 15 amp fuses labeled lights a red light came on on the panel. What does that mean?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Bobbie54

OK, pulled the fuses to check. (3 15 amp and 1 20 amp for the fridge). All look good. But when I pulled the upper of the 2 15 amp fuses labeled lights a red light came on on the panel. What does that mean?

Bobbie: If working properly any fuse that is blown or pulled should show a red LED light. This is a design feature of the WFCO power center to easily alert the user of a blown fuse.

[steve dunham]

A visual inspection of a fuse doesn’t always indicate that the fuse is blown
A short circuit will cause a fuse to blow and give you a visible indication
A fuse that burns open from an overload often will not
The best way to test a fuse is with an ohm meter

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Bobbie: If working properly any fuse that is blown or pulled should show a red LED light. This is a design feature of the WFCO power center to easily alert the user of a blown fuse.

Well, only the one did. So it is getting some battery power to be able to come on but the others either have lights out or are not getting battery power. Batteries are still fully charged and nothing works inside. (Except that warning light- the lights it is warning about do not work.)

Trying to redo the ground to trailer frame but have to loosen up the screw first. Not a very long line or I'd cut it and start fresh but that's still an option if I can't loosen the screw. There do not appear to be any splices or breaks between the battery and the frame.

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

It sort of doesn't matter if you're referring to the negative buss on the converter. Many ground leads converge and are attached to the same ground. It doesn't matter if you know which ground belongs to whatever. As long as that bunch of grounds are, in effect, well grounded to the battery negative terminal.

Ron

The bundle of black wires at the converter appear to leave the trailer to go to the frame.

Can't get that ground screw loose so my next option is probably to cut it off and reground to a new spot on the frame. I wish I could test to make sure that is the problem, first, but without cutting into it I can't verify that I have a good ground there.

I unwrapped a splice that I think is where the battery shutoff was; there is a quick connect of this kind: https://www.amazon.com/DZS-Elec-Insu...=fsclp_pl_dp_2. (the blue one) How do I disconnect that? I can't tell that it is loose it likely makes the most sense.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Bobbie54

I unwrapped a splice that I think is where the battery shutoff was; there is a quick connect of this kind: https://www.amazon.com/DZS-Elec-Insu...=fsclp_pl_dp_2. (the blue one) How do I disconnect that? I can't tell that it is loose it likely makes the most sense.

That type of connector just pulls apart. Personally I would do a butt connector but maybe the electrical gurus will weigh in with the best approach to that splice.

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

That type of connector just pulls apart. Personally I would do a butt connector but maybe the electrical gurus will weigh in with the best approach to that splice.

I think I can just omit the splice and connect directly to the post with the fuse. See third picture in reply #63.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Bobbie54

I think I can just omit the splice and connect directly to the post with the fuse. See third picture in reply #63.

True. It looks like you have the slack to put a ring connector on where the splice is and take that line directly to the auto reset fuse.

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

True. It looks like you have the slack to put a ring connector on where the splice is and take that line directly to the auto reset fuse.

When I measure the voltage coming from the top end of that splice (goes down into the metal box) it is 12.75 (which tells me the bolt is a good ground.) I guess I should say comes from there. Is that the cube breaker that has the two screws? So if I connect up directly (no splice) either I should still get 3.24 (cube is bad) or 12.75 (splice was bad?)

[padlin]

Now that you have a known good ground, the both, put the black lead on that and the red on one screw of the rectangle breaker, then check the other screw. If it's good both should read 12.75vdc.

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by padlin

Now that you have a known good ground, the both, put the black lead on that and the red on one screw of the rectangle breaker, then check the other screw. If it's good both should read 12.75vdc.

It's not connected any more since I undid the splice. But it read 3.3 before on both sides. I think that means I was losing voltage across the splice.

I need to get a connector for the red wire I disconnected before I can fix and recheck that.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Bobbie54

The bundle of black wires at the converter appear to leave the trailer to go to the frame.

Can't get that ground screw loose so my next option is probably to cut it off and reground to a new spot on the frame. I wish I could test to make sure that is the problem, first, but without cutting into it I can't verify that I have a good ground there.

I unwrapped a splice that I think is where the battery shutoff was; there is a quick connect of this kind: https://www.amazon.com/DZS-Elec-Insu...=fsclp_pl_dp_2. (the blue one) How do I disconnect that? I can't tell that it is loose it likely makes the most sense.

one way to check ground continuity would be to find another place on the frame where you can get clean shiny metal, and connect a 12V lamp between that point, and any source of 12V power, such as pin 4 on the RV 7-blade plug. if the light lights, then that ground is good.

another test would be to pull the brake safety wire, the trailer brakes are grounded to the frame, so if they engage, then everything is good.