Two way water heater question

[LRL]

Our new E23 has a two way water heater - which we love but which is a new concept to us. The electrical “on” switch is located outside, under the panel covering the water heater “guts.” Rather than go outside to turn it on all the time when needed, then remembering to turn it off when off of shore power, I’m wondering if it would be OK to leave it “on” all the time. When not attached to shore power, I’d use propane by switching it on from inside the trailer. When attached to shore power, I’d just plug in and the water heater will begin working.

Is this safe and OK to do, or do I need to turn the shore power switch off and on as appropriate…and make sure it’s in the off position before using propane?

Thanks!

[hondasaurus]

Hi,

Mine is on all the time except when I winterize the Trailler is goes off before emptying the water heater. Why? because if you unwinterrise on shore power it will go on without water inside.

[Viajante]

The problem with leaving it on all the time is the risk of plugging it in when the tank is empty. The heating element will quickly burn out.

The preferred solution is to mount a switch inside the camper next to the propane switch so that the water heater is controlled from one location.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by LRL

...
Is this safe and OK to do, or do I need to turn the shore power switch off and on as appropriate…and make sure it’s in the off position before using propane?

Thanks!

When plugged into shore power/full hookups we keep both the propane and the 110 VAC turned on and take long, back-to-back showers. With both power sources running we don't run out of hot water. Been working fine for 8 years.

But, as previously mentioned, be very cautious about turning the 110 VAC to "off" when the tank is drained. And more cautious about remembering to fill the tank first before turning 110 VAC back "on".

Don't ask how I learned this lesson...

[Ron in BC]

On a 21C it's pretty simple to access the power wire behind the panel at the foot of the bed and splice in a switch to turn the heater off and on as required.

BTW that panel can be removed and replaced without damage. Makes a very good spot to put valuables etc. in a well hidden location.

Ron

[Unit # 1]

My two biggest concerns of leaving the switch on in my 23 is damage to heater if it is empty and draining the batteries when inverter is on.

[LRL]

Good thoughts, all. Thank you!

[rubicon327]

Before you install a switch inside you could just turn the electric side on and off at the breaker which is dedicated. I wouldn’t do this as a long term solution though as breakers don’t really like frequent cycling on/off.

[Vermilye]

Some of us have installed a standard toggle switch in series with the hot wire from the water heater breaker. I can shut if off while inside the trailer; useful when connected to a 15 / 20 amp site, or when you winterize the trailer. You can also purchase a relay that is installed in the water heater, although you will need a new utility display panel that includes a 12V switch for the relay, and add wiring from the display to the water heater.

[CharlesinGA]

Had Escape used the "right" water heater, you would not be experiencing this. The Suburban you have is a model SW6DE, had they installed a SW6DEL instead and inside the trailer installed a dual switch panel, you could simply control both elect and gas from inside.

Anyone considering ordering from Escape should specify the SW6DEL (the L being the important part) and the proper control panel inside, It only takes ONE additional wire to the water heater to accomplish this.

The reason for doing this is that it locates BOTH switches in one common panel, one location, nothing is accidently missed or inadvertently operated (such as a regular residential wall switch in a box in the bottom of a cabinet face) or similar jack leg installation.

That running outside to turn the water heater on and off is ridiculous, and should not be foisted off on the RV community in these days and times.

The 120v Romex® is routed straight to the water heater, and connects to a relay. Then the additional 14 or 16 gauge wire from the dual switch panel runs to the relay to energize it and switch on the electric element.



My 2008 Bigfoot was one of the very first ones equipped with a dual elect/gas water heater (Atwood) and on mine the water heater switch and fail light were on the stove vent hood, but since they didn't plan for the electric WH control switch, they mounted it about 4 ft away close to the WH itself and didn't even label it. I eventually ran the additional wire in the existing bundle behind the cabinets and thru the wardrobe wall and under the microwave and into the stove hood where I utilized a unused knockout to mount the switch, so all were together.

If the OP were of a mind to do this, and its feasible to run the additional wire, all you would need to obtain is a Suburban water heater relay and connect one terminal to ground, the additional 12v control wire to another, and the 120v hot to one and the last to the WH element.

Suburban relay

DO NOT use the numbers off the relay in the pic below, it is a 24v version. I used it because it was a good pic to illustrate the connections, however these relays are made in many different control voltages, so you want the Suburban p/n 232948 relay, as I linked to immediately above.


The two terminals on the LH side in the pic are smaller .187 (3/16 inch spades) and are the 12v contol connections (NOT polarity sensitive) and the of the other three you can see the Comm, NO, and NC. You would connect a 120v input to the Common, and the out to the heater (thru the existing outside rocker switch if you wished) goes on the Normally Open contact and the Normally Closed on the far right is not connected.

This Thread on the Fun Finder Forum is accomplishing the same thing.

Charles

Pics below show how screwed up my BF was and how I fixed it.

[C&G in FL]

Charles’ solution is probably the ideal way to go. If you search old threads on these water heaters, it has been noted that the outside switch on the water heater does not like to be switched on and off either and is susceptible to failure. They are not easy to replace. For that reason, I installed a standard wall switch to turn it on and off from the inside. The other option is to simply replace the circuit breaker with one rated SWD (switch duty). It is my understanding that breakers do not fail from simply being turned on and off. It is arching when they are under power that causes them to go bad. When I added the inside switch, I also replace the ETI supplied break with one rated SWD. When I store my trailer, I turn them both off. I figure that is double protection against accidentally burning out the element.

[MrLynn]

I only use the electric hot-water element when we are camping with shore power. Otherwise I turn it off (either camping without shore power, or trailer stored). I turn on the gas hw heater only when we are camping without shore power). So I use one, or the other, or neither, but not both.

[CharlesinGA]

To answer the OP's question about gas and electric simultaneously, yes, quite OK and it heats real fast, with very fast recovery.

Charles

[hugh]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Charles’ solution is probably the ideal way to go. If you search old threads on these water heaters, it has been noted that the outside switch on the water heater does not like to be switched on and off either and is susceptible to failure. They are not easy to replace. For that reason, I installed a standard wall switch to turn it on and off from the inside. The other option is to simply replace the circuit breaker with one rated SWD (switch duty). It is my understanding that breakers do not fail from simply being turned on and off. It is arching when they are under power that causes them to go bad. When I added the inside switch, I also replace the ETI supplied break with one rated SWD. When I store my trailer, I turn them both off. I figure that is double protection against accidentally burning out the element.

FWIW, the factory installed breaker on my 21c was already SWD rated, so I just use that to turn on and off the water heater. If I get motivated, I may add the 12v relay at some point.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by hugh

FWIW, the factory installed breaker on my 21c was already SWD rated, so I just use that to turn on and off the water heater. If I get motivated, I may add the 12v relay at some point.

Good to hear (and hopefully as well) that ETI is now installing a SWD rated breaker on the water heater circuit. My 2015 had a “standard” circuit breaker. It certainly is easier to turn the water heater on and off from the inside of the trailer than the outside even if you have to crouch to do so. Especially true if it is raining or it is after the sun goes down!

[brroberts]

I have not yet put in an indoor switch, but plan on it sometime. I don’t have an inverter, so I just flip the switch on after dewinterizing, and flip it off before dewinterizing, or at the end of a trip. If we don’t have hookups, or need to shower a lot back to back, I’ll also run it on gas. So far, unlike the MaxxFan, Fridge, or furnace, it has been reliable.

[Mike G]

Reading this thread makes me feel really fortunate! My pre-loved 2012 came to me with an indoor switch for the (gas only) water heater. Happy, happy.

[Chamberman]

I've been thinking about adding this switch/relay to the water heater power as well. A little searching of the part# that CharlesinGA posted shows there's a little better option for the relay. This 40A relay at Digikey is the slightly heavier duty version and a lot cheaper. The datasheet shows its rated for 1120W switching, which is a little low for the water heater element, but the 30A relay is only rated for 840W of resistive switching.

[bborzell]

The water heater in our E23 is gas only. Mainly because I have never felt a need to switch the electrical circuit on.

[LRL]

Originally Posted by bborzell

The water heater in our E23 is gas only. Mainly because I have never felt a need to switch the electrical circuit on.

Good for you.