Microwave outlet replacement

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by captmath

Don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but my TA has a separate breaker box attached to the underside of the driver side seat in the corner. I had no power to one side of the trailer and had just about given up when I happened to see a box with a breaker switch up there. That was the one that was tripped.

That is not unique to the 5.0TA; it is the breaker box for circuits which are powered from the transfer switch, so they can run from the inverter or shore power... so it is only present if the trailer is equipped with the "all outlets" inverter option. The breakers in that box - normally there are two of them - should run all accessible outlets, and the microwave; the circuits for the converter, refrigerator, water heater (if dual-power), and air conditioner (if so equipped) should be in the main panel in the WFCO Power Center.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Sure, but this is not a unique situation in Escapes. How many of them have a dedicated microwave circuit? Based on previous discussions, I would guess not many.

No argument there! I agree that many of the "For Microwave Only" stickers are erroneous. There is no dedicated circuit as the sticker would imply but that doesn't negate the need for one.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Slickheadhunter

I didn't either, you would think a microwave would have its own GFI outlet and have its own breaker.

I don't see much need for a GFCI for a microwave in a cabinet, but ideally it would be on its own circuit breaker. In your case, it is GFCI protected (by feeding through the upstream GFCI receptacle); since GFCI breakers are expensive and not normally use, if it were on its own it would get a GFCI receptacle at the microwave. I don't know if GFCI receptacles are available in that self-contained device (SCD) format that RV manufacturers such as Escape like to use.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by captmath

Don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but my TA has a separate breaker box attached to the underside of the driver side seat in the corner. I had no power to one side of the trailer and had just about given up when I happened to see a box with a breaker switch up there. That was the one that was tripped.

That's the panel I modified so that the circuits supplied by it had dedicated circuits where needed and spliting up the outlets so that a hair dryer plugged into one side of the trailer didn't trip the breaker when the coffee pot on the other side was on. Those two breakers (in my trailer) needed to be four breakers which was done by replacing the singles with tandem breakers and separating the circuits.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...ion-11047.html

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Slickheadhunter

Here's the breakers.

The photo shows a typical AC distribution panel in an Escape without the optional inverter. Although the WFCO manual shows three double breakers installed, the panel appears to be designed for five breakers, all of which can be double. Aside from considerations of total circuit capacity versus the panel and main breaker capacity, it appears that it would be physically straightforward to install additional breakers and eliminate any instances of separate wires entering the panel and being combined to one breaker (either as two wires into one terminal, or using the pigtail and thus using the panel as a junction box). This still wouldn't address the original situation with a microwave fed from another outlet circuit, unless a new cable were run from the microwave directly to the panel.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I don't see much need for a GFCI for a microwave in a cabinet, but ideally it would be on its own circuit breaker. In your case, it is GFCI protected (by feeding through the upstream GFCI receptacle); since GFCI breakers are expensive and not normally use, if it were on its own it would get a GFCI receptacle at the microwave. I don't know if GFCI receptacles are available in that self-contained device (SCD) format that RV manufacturers such as Escape like to use.

A dedicated microwave receptacle does not require GFCI protection, as those receptacles are not installed to serve the kitchen countertop surfaces. The same for the refrigerator circuit.

Running a new cable for the microwave circuit to it's own breaker provided by replacing the single breaker with a tandem would be a bit of work but may be worth it.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by captmath

Don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but my TA has a separate breaker box attached to the underside of the driver side seat in the corner. I had no power to one side of the trailer and had just about given up when I happened to see a box with a breaker switch up there. That was the one that was tripped.

I think it's been posted you have this separate breaker box if you also have the EMS or maybe that's the 1500 watt inverter. Shoot don't remember. And I have both.

ALL I know is when Ten Forward was six months old, and I was out camping in the cold, rainy January Oregon weather... I lost ALL power in the trailer. Did all the checks I could with all the 'light up' testers I had. ZIP. Everything was good... what the 'el? Even flipped the breakers in THIS box.

IN the end, with my good bud's help (Dave&Kathie) and a 2pm...on a Sunday call from Reace, it was discovered one of the breakers in the box was BAD. A <$10 part at Lowes.... and I had POWER!

After this episode, if I should lose all power again... I may check those breakers first....

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Slickheadhunter

The wire you see on the left goes from that outlet to a third outlet. The wire on the right with the electrical tape on it is the one going to the microwave. The screw in the center is where the wire was looped around and wore through.

That long screw in the centre is presumably for the clamp which holds the cables - it's not clear in that low-resolution exterior image, but from the inside the box it should be apparent.

Originally Posted by Slickheadhunter

The wire on the left going to the third outlet is covered with a black plastic corrugated covering, which I had to stuff around the wire going into the metal box because of the sharp metal around that hole.

Because the cable is held firmly by the clamp (assuming that's a typical box with integral clamps), and should be secured soon after it leaves the box, the cable doesn't rub against the edge of the hole. The box edges are sharp because these are punched steel with no finishing work done. There is no grommet or other protection because there is no need for it and so no provision for it in the box design.

If the cables are not firmly held by the clamp, the clamp is not properly tightened.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I think it's been posted you have this separate breaker box if you also have the EMS or maybe that's the 1500 watt inverter. Shoot don't remember. And I have both.

As I explained, it is for the inverter installation - see above.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That long screw in the centre is presumably for the clamp which holds the cables - it's not clear in that low-resolution exterior image, but from the inside the box it should be apparent.


Because the cable is held firmly by the clamp (assuming that's a typical box with integral clamps), and should be secured soon after it leaves the box, the cable doesn't rub against the edge of the hole. The box edges are sharp because these are punched steel with no finishing work done. There is no grommet or other protection because there is no need for it and so no provision for it in the box design.

If the cables are not firmly held by the clamp, the clamp is not properly tightened.

I'm betting that the metal receptacle box is similar to the pic below. There are no clamps - you are supposed to use a cable connector (see 2nd pic) where wiring enters the box through knockouts.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

I'm betting that the metal receptacle box is similar to the pic below. There are no clamps - you are supposed to use a cable connector (see 2nd pic) where wiring enters the box through knockouts.

If it is that style of box, it certainly needs those cable connectors (and what idiot would run cables into the box with no clamp at all?)... but then what is the long screw? It looks way too long for a ground screw.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

If it is that style of box, it certainly needs those cable connectors (and what idiot would run cables into the box with no clamp at all?)... but then what is the long screw? It looks way too long for a ground screw.

That's the screw that attaches the receptacle to the box. See below - the screw at the top of the GFCI.

And yes, I am trying to refrain from discussing what I think of some of the "electricians" that work for Escape.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

That's the screw that attaches the receptacle to the box. See below - the screw at the top of the GFCI.

And yes, I am trying to refrain from discussing what I think of some of the "electricians" that work for Escape.

I feel no need to refrain from the truth . From what I’ve seen of the wiring and plumbing in Escape trailers , Escape does NOT employ qualified electricians or plumbers. For that matter neither do other trailer manufacturers but that not much conciliation for Escape owners
The obvious lack of pride in workmanship shown in the picture in this forum stick out like a sore thumb

GB Disclaimer ; I do not own an Escape but you neither need to be an engineer or an electrician or an Escape owner to recognize shoddy workmanship !!

Like my electrical professor said “ The kindest thing I can say about your electrical installation is that it works “ Wasn’t much of a compliment then STILL ISN’T

[Slickheadhunter]

From what I can tell there are no clamps holding the two cables entering the metal box! I'll have to address that!

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Slickheadhunter

From what I can tell there are no clamps holding the two cables entering the metal box! I'll have to address that!

I would replace the current metal box with properly sized brown fiber box with cable clamps . I would also replace the cable coming into the box on the upper left of your picture
There is a minimum bending radius for cables and they are not supposed be bent at 90 deg immediately after entering / leaving the box .Eventually the cable as shown will cut and short out from rubbing on the side of the KO.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I would replace the current metal box with properly sized brown fiber box with cable clamps .

These are the ones I prefer but it may be more work than you may want to tackle. If you decide to replace the box, be sure to seal the outside with Proflex or similar before putting the cover on - the receptacle cover is suppose to seal it but it's good to make sure.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NDZ24I...a-312403816781

The cable clamps you can get at any hardware store that sells electrical stuff -- ie Lowes or Home Depot.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

These are the ones I prefer but it may be more work than you may want to tackle.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NDZ24I...a-312403816781

The cable clamps you can get at any hardware store that sells electrical stuff -- ie Lowes or Home Depot.

The box you referenced is the exact box I was referring to in my post and has internal cable clamps
They are much more rigid than the blue Carlon boxes The brown fiber boxes do not distort and the device mounting screw holes do not strip out as easily as with the blue plastic boxes

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Slickheadhunter

From what I can tell there are no clamps holding the two cables entering the metal box! I'll have to address that!

Emile, if you feel brave enough to tackle making the microwave circuit dedicated, you could install a T&B box (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NDZ24I...a-312403816781) in the microwave cavity, run a length of 14/3 romex from the box down to the converter panel, and add/change a breaker for an additional 15 amp circuit. It would make life a lot easier in the long run and would get the microwave cable out of the GFCI outlet box.

ps. the T&B box I linked to doesn't need cable clamps added as it has them built in.

Good Luck!

[Slickheadhunter]

I should do it, but I'll tell ya, I'd rather get some teeth pulled! Ok not quite, but I would rather fell trees, work on my food plots and watch paint dry.

Honestly for the money i paid for that trailer I shouldn't have to re-wire anything.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Because the cable is held firmly by the clamp (assuming that's a typical box with integral clamps), and should be secured soon after it leaves the box, the cable doesn't rub against the edge of the hole. .

Good point. It's not visible in the photo if the yellow wire also is cable clamped near the box. If not, on a bumpy road it would move around and chafe on the protruding screw.

I was a little disappointed to see that ETI didn't support the incoming cable better. At some point metal fatigue would set in. I installed cable clips to properly support it.

Ron