5.0 Aerodynamics

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by DanandDaphne

Yes, because that wasn't the question being asked. It was,

"5.0 Aerodynamics

That is because this thread, like so many others, veered off topic. But in reality, the question being asked wasn’t really about aerodynamics as much as it was about fuel costs. And aerodynamics are only one factor related to fuel costs. Driving style, engine condition (tune), speed, added weight in tow vehicle and trailer, density of air at varying elevation, fuel quality, weather conditions, tire inflation, etc. all come into play. It is doubtful you will find pure aerodynamic data on Escape trailers unless you are willing to finance expensive wind tunnel testing.

Trying to find data on the aerodynamics of 5.0 vs bumper pull. My gut says there is less wind resistance (and better mileage) with the 5th wheel but I could be wrong (again). Anybody happen to have mileage figures on comparable 5th wheel and conventional trailers?
Thanks,
Sam

I doubt even ETI has definitive aerodynamic data.

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: yardsale... That's unless you didn't have "Considerable" capacity in the first place. With our less than 1/2 ton...half ton we just carry a few plastic outdoor tables and the wet items if there are any. I did buy a folding aluminium rake to tidy up the campsite with. I hope that doesn't put us overweight. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

Hi Alf
I think you’ll be ok with that little rake. I used to sell them and they weighed less than most of the belt buckles the farm boys sport in these parts. As you know we’ve hit upon a couple solutions to keep the weight down. First and most important light beer. Second higher proof whiskey, more intelligence per liter. Finally, quit picking up pretty rocks at every campsite where there’s a beach.
You’re welcome
Iowa Dave

[cpaharley2008]

Another weight saving idea for you Dave is to quit bringing your brother's huge vegetables and fruit, some of them appear to be an all day eating event..........

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Another weight saving idea for you Dave is to quit bringing your brother's huge vegetables and fruit, some of them appear to be an all day eating event..........

My brother are both very good gardeners. The genetics imparted by our parents allow all three of us to successfully garden. However, I’ve seen you in action on some of those cross country vegetable preparation experiences and I just couldn’t deprive folks of the cornucopia bounty.
And I can usually drift the conversation to a few crazy gardening stories from my childhood.
Take your hearing aids out or excuse yourself to the restroom if you hear me say “when I was a kid” or another hour of your life you’ll never get back is gone. Did I ever tell you about the time ...........? Raise your hand if you’ve ever sent a box of garlic to Escape owner via priority mail or hauled a box of Cortland apples a thousand miles so you could give them away.
Iowa Dave

[cpaharley2008]

Raise your hand if you’ve ever sent a box of garlic to Escape owner via priority mail or hauled a box of Cortland apples a thousand miles so you could give them away.
Iowa Dave

You are a good person, Dave..........

[Iowa Dave]

Jim
Remember when I told you and Noelia about the postal employee taking some garlic home from my brother’s place? Ahhhhh well let me just say “I got lucky”. Noelia laughed at that one.
Iowa Dave

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Jim
Remember when I told you and Noelia about the postal employee taking some garlic home from my brother’s place? Ahhhhh well let me just say “I got lucky”. Noelia laughed at that one.
Iowa Dave

Yes, she reminded me this am about that conversation......

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I doubt even ETI has definitive aerodynamic data.

I agree. I would go further - my guess is that ETI has no aerodynamic data at all.

RV manufacturers in general do little to no aerodynamic simulation or testing, because they have neither the expertise nor the equipment, and they don't need to in order to sell their products. Trailer manufacturers have even less technical capability.

For trailers in general, aerodynamic design and testing would be problematic, because it depends so much on the tow vehicle, which is completely unknown to the trailer designer. A fifth-wheel is in a better situation because the tow vehicle can be assumed to be a pickup truck, but with different body widths, box heights, and cab shapes it's still an unknown. Different hitch positions add more variability.

It is possible for anyone with any trailer to do coast-down testing to determine the amount of drag of the tow vehicle alone and with the trailer... but almost no one does. I have never gotten around to it, with any vehicle.

[marsman]

I own the 5th wheel with a 2015 Ford F150, 6 speed tranny, max tow package and V8. The 5TA tows beautifully and we have towed on some really windy days. Our gas mileage varies wildly - overall we average 14-15mpg - one time we were crossing the Rockies and facing a really strong headwind to boot and our mileage that day was around 12.5mpg, when towing across the prairies for a couple of days that were reasonably calm, we were averaging over 15mpg which I thought was amazing; we probably have the trailer around 4800 lbs and we carry a total payload in the vehicle of about 1500 lbs for reference.

I JUST LOVE MY ESCAPE and it breaks my heart to have had to watch it sit motionless for the last year or so

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by marsman

I own the 5th wheel with a 2015 Ford F150, 6 speed tranny, max tow package and V8. The 5TA tows beautifully and we have towed on some really windy days. Our gas mileage varies wildly - overall we average 14-15mpg - one time we were crossing the Rockies and facing a really strong headwind to boot and our mileage that day was around 12.5mpg, when towing across the prairies for a couple of days that were reasonably calm, we were averaging over 15mpg which I thought was amazing; we probably have the trailer around 4800 lbs and we carry a total payload in the vehicle of about 1500 lbs for reference.

I JUST LOVE MY ESCAPE and it breaks my heart to have had to watch it sit motionless for the last year or so

Hi: marsman... Another beautiful tower here. Our 5.0TA looked so forlorn sitting in the drive that I jumped at the chance to put it in indoor storage... Out of sight out of mind!!! Things will get better... I hope. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[MJClark]

Going from a 22' NASH to our 5.0 we gained over 100 miles per tank. Pickup aerodynamics with most any bumper pull don't exist, it's like pulling a barn door into the wind.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by MJClark

Going from a 22' NASH to our 5.0 we gained over 100 miles per tank. Pickup aerodynamics with most any bumper pull don't exist, it's like pulling a barn door into the wind.

I found the bumper pull aerodynamics to be somewhere between the 5.0 and non existent due to the smaller and rounder shape of the Escape which ameliorates some of the loss. So they do exist somewhat.

[RonB]

2019 GMC Canyon w 2.8L diesel towing a 5.0 TA: 13 L/100km = 18 US mpg

[marsman]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: marsman... Another beautiful tower here. Our 5.0TA looked so forlorn sitting in the drive that I jumped at the chance to put it in indoor storage... Out of sight out of mind!!! Things will get better... I hope. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

Escape Artist - things are definitely looking up right now here in Ontario especially with those nice American folks sharing some of their vaccines with us - I'm very hopeful at this point to be able to go south next winter and maybe even this coming fall?? I'm pretty sure I'll miss the Fargo Blues Fest again this year which is a bloody shame; up until 2019 I had not missed that event in 11 years - the first time we went there were a total of 3 Canadians there and in 2019 we numbered 19 - quite the rowdy crew we were!! Oh well, I'd be real happy to make the gathering at Quartzite next year?

[JohnE3]

The short answer is yes, the Escape 5.0, on a pickup truck without a cap, has better aerodynamics than a similar designed fiberglass bumper pull.

I used to tow a Trillium Outback 14' fibreglass trailer, with a 2011 Ford Ranger extended cab, manual, rear-wheel drive. I sold the Outback, and traded up to an Escape 5.0 (single axle). While I don't have the exact figures, I remember being quite pleased that there was virtually no reduction in fuel economy with the changeover.

The Outback was considerably lighter at about 2000lbs, compared to 3300lbs for the Escape. My conclusion was that better aerodynamics offset the additional weight.

Furthermore, even with the heavier trailer, having the hitch weight supported directly over the rear wheels made for an "easier" drive; less bouncing, wind buffeting, etc.

I did eventually update the truck, but primarily do to the standard transmission, and issues starting from a standing stop on steep grades (i.e. mountain forestry roads). Momentum was everything in the mountains with the Ranger, but I can take my time with the Nissan Frontier 4WD automatic.

It's also notable that there was little change in fuel economy between the Ranger and Frontier when towing the Escape 5.0. The Frontier is heavier, but I think the more powerful engine doesn't work as hard, and is more likely to be at an efficient RPM. I average about 14 to 15L/100km with the current setup, or 19.5mpg imperial (about 16mpg US).

So cargo preferences and trailer layouts notwithstanding, reducing the gap between the tow vehicle and trailer improves aerodynamics. This is evident in fairings added to many long haul tractor-trailers seen on highways today.

[escape artist]

Hi: JohnE3... I couldn't have said it better myself!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[cpaharley2008]

Taken unhitched on way to Chilliwack....in May 2019 to pick up new Escape, under 2000 rpms....

[WillyB]

Originally Posted by marsman

I own the 5th wheel with a 2015 Ford F150, 6 speed tranny, max tow package and V8. The 5TA tows beautifully and we have towed on some really windy days. Our gas mileage varies wildly - overall we average 14-15mpg - one time we were crossing the Rockies and facing a really strong headwind to boot and our mileage that day was around 12.5mpg, when towing across the prairies for a couple of days that were reasonably calm, we were averaging over 15mpg which I thought was amazing; we probably have the trailer around 4800 lbs and we carry a total payload in the vehicle of about 1500 lbs for reference.

I JUST LOVE MY ESCAPE and it breaks my heart to have had to watch it sit motionless for the last year or so

As a comparison, my friend has a 2019 F150 4x4 10-speed, max tow and a 3.5 EcoBoost.

He has pulls his 20 foot, 4200lb (dry), rectangular box stickie with a months worth of payload and he "averaged" 10 MPG. He said heading west across South Dakota into a stiff wind he was getting 7.5 MPG and similarly with the wind to his back he was getting around 12 MPG.

Sounds like an Escape is pretty slippery.

[emers382]

Yes the wind can certainly make a difference especially on the prairies. When we had our 5.0 single axle we headed west in 2017 and wondered why I was getting crappy mileage but the wind was against us, once in the mountains the mileage improved substantially. On the way back we had a great tailwind in Alberta and was getting 23mpg!