Why 4X4 vs 4X2?

[Jim Bennett]

I did!

Originally Posted by Chotch

And I bet you got a full size spare[emoji16]

[RB Donath]

Darn - I did not !!! Wish I read this first. Our new 18’ Tahoe 4x4 RST came with 22” Wheels - just checked, the Spare is 17” plus the Manual instructs “If you have a Front Flat, first remove a 22” Rear tire, and place the 17” Spare in the Rear position, then remove Front flat, and place 22” Tire in the Front position”.
Still learning in Tucson,
RB Donath

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by RB Donath

Darn - I did not !!! Wish I read this first. Our new 18’ Tahoe 4x4 RST came with 22” Wheels - just checked, the Spare is 17” plus the Manual instructs “If you have a Front Flat, first remove a 22” Rear tire, and place the 17” Spare in the Rear position, then remove Front flat, and place 22” Tire in the Front position”.
Still learning in Tucson,
RB Donath

don't take those 22's on a rocky dirt road unless you like pinch flats. /45 series tires belong on a glass smooth race track, not public highways.

[RB Donath]

Bridgestone Dueler H/L Light Truck Tires are not suitable for “public Highways” ? Guess I really screwed up.
Still learning in Tucson,
RB Donath

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

/45 series tires belong on a glass smooth race track, not public highways.

Not to be argumentative, but tires with a 45 aspect ratio are perfectly suitable for public highways. I wouldn't offroad with such a low profile, but for roads? No problem. Having said that, I prefer a higher ratio, mainly for versatility.

[RB Donath]

Thanks, feeling better now. We never go off-road, stick to the pavement & generally reserve Handicapped Campsites which are paved. Glad to know that we are not limited to towing our new 19’RFP on a “Racetrack”.
RB Donath

[War Eagle]

As I understand it, many of the larger municipalities and public utility companies around here buy 4x2 trucks in multiple units from a designated regional "fleet dealer." If you can ask around and find your area fleet dealer, the dealer might let you tag along on one of their orders and get a decent deal on a 4x2, but perhaps limited to white paint with minimal options available. Probably not you're dream tow vehicle, but just a thought for those looking for a deal but frustrated with not finding any 4x2's on dealer lots in their area....

[John in Santa Cruz]

re fleets, there's also more generic ford commercial dealers who sell predominately the plain white work grade trucks, not XLT/Limited/etc stuff. in the South SF Bay Area, its Mission Valley Ford in San Jose, https://www.missionvalleyford.net/ne...inventory.html

[John in Santa Cruz]

watch your tire pressure religiously with those /45 series 22" wheels, and be especially careful on rough and cracked roads, and around potholes, or you WILL be dealing with pinch flats and bent rims.

[Brian B-P]

There is a broad spectrum of surfaces between "rocky dirt road" and "glass smooth race track". I wouldn't worry about low-profile tires on gravel as much I would over potholes; well-graded gravel is much better than potholed paved roads for short sidewalls. There are lots of stories of low-profile tires destroyed by potholes that more reasonable tires just shrug off, and I had even a 55-aspect tire sidewall on a car killed by one.

Also, while a 45 aspect ratio is low for a truck, the sidewall height is the aspect ratio multiplied by the section width: it looks like the 22" tires on a Tahoe are 285/45R22, so they have nominally 128 mm (5") sidewalls... very short for a truck or heavy SUV but not short by car standards.

Of course this has nothing to do with 2WD versus 4WD.

[cpaharley2008]

Just be careful of those full sized spare, some manufacturers call the spare full sized if the wheel is the same circumference as the stock tire, but the tire they install is not a stock regular, but temporary tire with restrictions. Unless it matches the other 4 wheels and tires specs, you may have a temporary "full sized" spare. No harm in dropping it and checking it at home vs finding out the surprise on the highway.

[JStelly]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

That will be a Unicorn indeed John, if you can find it. Most dealers here in Texas haven't heard of 'steep discounts' when it comes to an F150.

Well hope springs eternal! [emoji4]

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

That will be a Unicorn indeed John, if you can find it. Most dealers here in Texas haven't heard of 'steep discounts' when it comes to an F150.

The discounts are there if you're willing to buy what they are desperate to sell. A few years back, we went to a local Ford dealership to test drive a particular model/engine combination we were interested in. When the salesman brought a truck around for us to drive, it wasn't the model/engine combo we were interested in. He told us that's what was available without waiting, and said that they all drive pretty much the same. So off we went. Nice truck, but not what we wanted. When we got back to the dealership, they really put the hard sell on to get us to buy the truck we test drove (the one we didn't want but they obviously wanted to get off their lot). Every time we told the salesman, "No", the sales manager would walk by and say, "Take off another thousand and throw in _________." (where the blank was whatever accessory we might want like mud flaps or window rain guards). It got to be almost entertaining, but we finally walked away, and they learned we weren't push-overs. A year later, we went back to them with our build sheet and bought the truck we wanted at a fair price - no more games or gimmicks.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

A year later, we went back to them with our build sheet and bought the truck we wanted at a fair price - no more games or gimmicks.

I think that's the real bottom line. I'll never know what "savings" I might have had if I'd negotiated hard for a vehicle that I really didn't want. But I do know that the vehicle that I'll be driving most days and using to tow with for tens of thousands of miles is the exact vehicle that I want. And it does have those "free" mud flaps among all the other stuff that was thrown in to sweeten the deal.

Ron

[Up2speed4]

I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee that's always using all for wheels but don't most 4x4 trucks have both two wheel and four wheel drive option? If so, isn't that like having your cake and eating it too?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Up2speed4

... don't most 4x4 trucks have both two wheel and four wheel drive option? If so, isn't that like having your cake and eating it too?

Not really. In 2WD you're still carrying around the weight of the 4WD system, some of the components are still turning and adding drag, and you still had to pay for it.

An AWD system that can actually use all wheels for driving on normal roads is more functional than a basic truck system in which 4WD cannot be used unless tires are substantially slipping.
An AWD system that is always in AWD is simpler (and so lighter and less expensive to buy and repair) than a sophisticated truck system that has 2WD, 4WD locked, and 4WD full-time modes.

All system designs have their advantages and disadvantages, but as always "there's no free lunch".

Originally Posted by Up2speed4

I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee that's always using all for wheels...

You likely have a Quadra-Trac II or Quadra-Drive II system - both use the NV247 or NV245 transfer case. If the Jeep is 2005 or newer, it has the NV245 which has a differential in the transfer case, allowing both front and rear to be driven all of the time. Like most truck systems, it also has a low gear range. What it doesn't have is the extra mechanisms that would be needed to disconnect the front (for 2WD) and lock the centre differential (so the rear would be driven with no front connected), or the front axle disconnect features needed to save any fuel by not turning front shafts. This simplifies and lightens the transfer case and front axle.

[John in Santa Cruz]

The classic truck 4x4 doesn't have a center differential, just a transfer case, with the 2wd, 4wd, and 4 low modes. These can not be used on dry pavement.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

The classic truck 4x4 doesn't have a center differential, just a transfer case, with the 2wd, 4wd, and 4 low modes. These can not be used on dry pavement.

True. Higher trim levels of common current pickup trucks and similar SUVs do have either a centre differential or an automatically controlled clutch to engage the front axle, which is how they achieve full-time usability.

In the traditional part-time system, 4WD is not available in most driving conditions, so again it is not like "like having your cake and eating it too" compared to full-time systems such as the one Up2speed4 has in the Grand Cherokee.

There are a lot of 4WD systems, which is why the "which is best" question is never simple.

[Tin]

Hum, I chose a 4x2 because:
1. It does not snow where I live.
2. It cost about 4,000 more.
3. It weighs about 400 lbs more and that weight comes right out the payload.
( towing a fifth wheel you can never have to much pay load)
4. It has a higher center of gravity which decreases towing stability and increases drag.
5. It has a higher bed and bed rails.
6. More mechanical parts means more things to maintain and repairs.
4x4 to me means 4,000 more and 400 Lbs more.
you can buy a lot of options with 4 grand . "KISS"

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Tin

Hum, I chose a 4x2 because:
1. It does not snow where I live.
2. It cost about 4,000 more.
3. It weighs about 400 lbs more and that weight comes right out the payload.
( towing a fifth wheel you can never have to much pay load)
4. It has a higher center of gravity which decreases towing stability and increases drag.
5. It has a higher bed and bed rails.
6. More mechanical parts means more things to maintain and repairs.
4x4 to me means 4,000 more and 400 Lbs more.
you can buy a lot of options with 4 grand . "KISS"

Well it snows where I live but I still agree with your points. At some point, if necessary, I'll buy snow tires. If climate change gives us record breaking snow and ice I'll get studded snow tires. I've been driving and towing with 4x2 pickups since the 70's. Never been stuck or gone off the road. But then I kind of enjoy driving on snow, sorta reminds me of my ice racing days in my mis-spent youth.

Ron