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Old 02-22-2014, 09:03 AM   #21
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With the E-Z winterizing you can still use compressed air, BUT, you also have the option to use antifreeze which makes the toilet/bathroom useable in the winter by flushing with rv antifreeze.
The foot toilet I considered, but I find as I get older, standing on one foot trying to operate machinery gets harder, plus children seem to like to play with pedals. I stayed with the hand lever, thinking you have to wash your hands either way of operation.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:19 AM   #22
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so what procedure do you use in the winter to use the easy fill? when you flush does the system draw from the gallon of antifreeze? is the fresh water tank system and lines isolated from the antifreeze? i need to be schooled here.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:29 AM   #23
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If you decide to winterize with antifreeze you bypass your water heater and hook up a gallon of antifreeze to the E-Z location, turn on your pump. You then go around and open each faucet until pink stuff flows thru and the same for the toilet. This will fill all your lines with the antifreeze. You can then use your toilet, flush the same as you would if hooked up to water, the pump will pull more antifreeze each flush, keeping your lines full. More expensive than water but it beats going outside when it is freezing to use the facilities. Also the antifreeze in your waste tank will help.
Note, you are also getting 12v heat pads on your tanks, these can only be used while hooked up to 120v, they will suck your battery dry very quickly. I had them on my 19' but opted out and ordered the foam spray without the heat pads because if I have 120V available then my tanks will be kept warm by my heat inside or by the antifreeze.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:53 AM   #24
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jim, can you pour antifreeze out of the jug to flush or does it have to go through the system?
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:31 AM   #25
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either way works
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:45 AM   #26
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Everyone has to decide what works best for them, but I'm going to avoid antifreeze in the waterlines at all costs. Yearly antifreeze in my Scamp has permanently changed the waterlines. There's nothing I can do to get that perfuming taste out, other than replacing the lines. It's fine for now, old lines, old water tank and only the use the water for washing up and flushing. Cooking, teeth and face get jug water. Carrying jugs of fresh water is something I'm trying to avoid with my new 5er. And if ten years of using antifreeze in the waterlines make the 5er lines as funky as the ones in my Scamp... I'm gonna be really mad at myself. Besides air is free and I can winterize, dewinterize, as often as I wish during winter camping. YMMV
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:49 AM   #27
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donna, thats what reace tried to impress on me. he thought down the line i would not like the pink stuff in the lines.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:51 AM   #28
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cpaharley2008, I notice that Blackjack does not have the optional front window. We're interested in the pros and cons of that option on the 21'.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:55 AM   #29
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At the end of winter, I can purchase RV antifreeze for less than $3 a gallon. Plenty cheap to use during winter camping to flush. And, if I have to carry jug water while camping.. that will only be during the coldest winter camping. I think...
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:59 AM   #30
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i am having trouble deciding on the foot operated toelet. any thoughts? does it sit higher and is it easy to operate compared to the normal installed unit?
The dimensions on the foot and hand operated toilets are the same. The foot operated uses a foot (or hand operated) pedal in front to flush, the hand operated has a lever on the right side near the back.

I think it is strictly personal preference - we had a Casita with foot flush so were used to it. My brother's camper has the hand flush and it felt like I was putting my face in the toilet to flush it.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:10 AM   #31
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I have never ingested the water in my fresh water tank for personal use other than perhaps brushing my teeth and then I avoid ingesting it. It's use is for the bathroom and kitchen. I always carry water for drinking and coffee and the dogs in a potable water container. That taste you get from the water lines Donna is a combination of the plastic chemicals and the water and you will always have that, regardless of antifreeze use. I would never purposely use water that sat outside in a container for more than a couple of days to avoid stagnation and that is what happens to your fresh and hot water tanks. This has happened in every trailer I have owned (7) in the past 6 years, the taste is there with or without antifreeze.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:14 AM   #32
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cpaharley2008, I notice that Blackjack does not have the optional front window. We're interested in the pros and cons of that option on the 21'.
After being surrounded by glass in the rear 19' I wanted a little more privacy and warmth from solid walls. Besides, I already know what is upfront. You will find that you have to leave the blinds up partially to avoid condensation on the rear and side windows, this allows the heat to circulate better against the glass.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:25 AM   #33
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That taste you get from the water lines Donna is a combination of the plastic chemicals and the water and you will always have that, regardless of antifreeze use.
Jim, I'm getting the EZ winterizing option, not for antifreeze but the future plan of using it to run bleach through the lines.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:41 AM   #34
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Be careful with bleach around your stainless, you may have a reaction. Good idea though, maybe try it myself to see if it improves the taste coming from those lines.
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:50 PM   #35
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When I talked to Reace about the 12V pads he indicated that he had a customer camp in weather down to, I believe, minus 12 C with out any freezing problems using just the foam insulation. I have camped in my 5.0 down to minus 6 C using just the foam without any problems; I just make sure that I have some antifreeze in the waste tanks, so the drain valves don't freeze, and use the water system normally.

One thing to remember is that undiluted antifreeze will freeze at a higher temperature than when it's diluted with water so your waste tanks are well protected; plus the bacteria in the tanks will warm them up a bit ...... take a look at the steam coming off of a manure pile in the middle of winter!

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Old 02-22-2014, 01:08 PM   #36
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Is it also possible to get an extra shelf over the 21 bed? I thought I saw that in a photo somewhere -- maybe Blackjack? Lindy and I both like to read in bed, and I like to solve chess problems on my iPad, so I like to have a shelf handy for glasses, iPad, etc. when I finally decide to roll over and go to sleep. Also, it seems like it would be an ideal place for a couple of extra 12 volt outlets for charging the iPad/iPhone.

Also, Burrab, you have an option called "mattress cover". Is that the hydro mesh stuff to prevent condensation?
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:11 PM   #37
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The shelf is standard if you do not get the window option, it runs the entire width of the bed approximately 6" deep and about 12" below the o/h. It is nice for personal items. I had a 12v installed overhead to plug in items also.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:21 PM   #38
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Thanks much, Jim. That is exactly what I needed to know.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:32 PM   #39
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Jim
I could not tell for sure, is the extra 12 volt outlet in the overhead shelving driver side front, I am speaking of the area over the permanent bed.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:47 PM   #40
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Thanks for those photos, Jim. The shelf looks very useful. And I'm sure we'll quickly figure out how to "trailer away" the $300 the window would have cost.
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