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Old 04-21-2020, 02:59 PM   #61
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Jim, the two main reasons for our purchase of our E21 in 2018 was the fact that I had the choice of paying in US$ or Canadian$ and that I did not have to hassle with buying from a dealer. I watched the exchange rates daily for 4 of 5 months and when it got to .74, I wired Canadian funds from my brokerage account to pay off the trailer. This morning, the Canadian $ traded to a low of .682 and is presently at .705. You can do the math and clearly see that Escape's new US $ only pricing is disadvantageous for US customers. Their conversion rate is no where near a reflection of market reality. It is no big deal to pay in Canadian funds but unfortunately, that is no longer an option for US customers.

This is merely a business decision by ETI and if it doesn't affect their sales to US customers, then it was a good decision because it will definitely increase the revenue of each US sale. If it causes a loss of sales greater than the increase in revenue from using the unrealistic exchange rate, then it was not a good decision. Time will tell.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:10 PM   #62
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P.T. Barnum said it well.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:17 PM   #63
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At no time ETI make it aware that I was bond to pay the rest of my bill in USD. why wouldn't you pay in US dollars? They tell you that it will be converted and the rate is shown on the build sheet. Supposed the rate was 1 to 1 , you would still send US dollars. I think the issue here is that some people were looking at the negative exchange rate entitlement to a discount. I never looked it that way. What ever the price was was given and you base your decision to purchase on that price. The it was Canadian, now it is US. I see not difference other than the "amount of discount" a purchaser feels they are entitled to playing the discount rate. Escape now only drops to 80% if I'm not mistaken vs 71% the current market. This is what you are upset over 9% on a $30,000 product or $2700? This is the risk in todays world, it could go the opposite tomorrow and you could be stuck owing another $2700 if it went to 110%. Until you pay the entire amount it can fluctuate. Escape is taking that out of the equation, perhaps doing the consumer a favor.
I never worried about the exchange rate, just the cost of the product.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:27 PM   #64
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I was vaguely thinking about replacing the 2008 RAV4 with a new Highlander, but, I'm thinking I'd prefer to keep the money in my account for now.
Why Highlander and not Ascent. Curious.

IMO, everything is always negotiable. The worse case outcome from the conversation is "no". I love going to a car dealer for a demo and I always answer the question "Is there anything I can do to get you to buy today?" is Sure, and mention a price 40% below the sticker. You never know.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:28 PM   #65
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How does the ETI cheer go again? Seems to me this is a case of biting the hand that feeds in that the overwhelming majority of buyers are from the USA. I agree time will tell. This ain't no mom & pop biz no mo!
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:42 PM   #66
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The difference is that when I bought mine, I sent my US dollars and got an exchange rate that more closely matched the official exchange rate. Now you get whatever exchange rate that ETI has established, which apparently is not nearly as good.


One issue I have is with the exchange rate "set" by ETI:
1 USD = 1.25 CAD
1 CAD = 0.80 USD
A rate that has not trade for over 3 years.

I received this answer:
" the ultimate goal to offer stable, guaranteed, fair pricing to both US and Canadian customers in their respective home currencies.
One key aim was to offer consistency in pricing for US customers, and so we reviewed historic exchange rates"
I wrote back and showed "Bank of Canada" average exchange rate for 2019: 1 USD = 1.327 CAD.
1 CAD = 0.753 USD.
It does looks like pennies, but in a USD 35,000 trailer it would represent USD 2,695 savings for an US customer.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:48 PM   #67
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Reminds me of 1965 I wanted to buy the highest performance GTO, I went to two dealers to compare prices, the lowest price was going to get my business but they raised the price on me from what the paper work said. That was the immediate end of our discussion and I went to a third dealer that beat the others and I had my car in about 5 weeks. I will not deal with someone when I feel I'm not being treated fairly.
I am on my third Escape.
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Old 04-21-2020, 03:54 PM   #68
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One issue I have is with the exchange rate "set" by ETI:
1 USD = 1.25 CAD
1 CAD = 0.80 USD
A rate that has not trade for over 3 years.

I received this answer:
" the ultimate goal to offer stable, guaranteed, fair pricing to both US and Canadian customers in their respective home currencies.
One key aim was to offer consistency in pricing for US customers, and so we reviewed historic exchange rates"
I wrote back and showed "Bank of Canada" average exchange rate for 2019: 1 USD = 1.327 CAD.
1 CAD = 0.753 USD.
It does looks like pennies, but in a USD 35,000 trailer it would represent USD 2,695 savings for an US customer.
Mario
I'm actually on your side on this one. You were promised one thing when you put your deposit down, and then they changed it. Doesn't seem equitable to me.

I have no problem with ETI changing things however they need to, as long as they don't make it retroactive.
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Old 04-21-2020, 04:04 PM   #69
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I do not think there ever was a promise when I purchased my Escapes, other than to complete the trailer by a certain date. I was aware of the exchange rate differential and I always paid the majority balance when the build sheet was done, therefore I did not need to worry if here were future changes. My last Escape was paid up 95% for 5 months before pick up. If you put a larger deposit the rate differential change impact is minimal.
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Old 04-21-2020, 04:39 PM   #70
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When I bought Ten Forward, I wrote checks on my US-based checking account. However, the largest amount $24,000+ was written while I was sitting in Tammy's office. She called their bank, got the exchange rate, tap-tap-tap her fingers on a calculator and THEN I wrote my check. I expect that's the same way it worked for others who sent US funds via mail, etc. There wasn't a set exchange rate like there is now.
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Old 04-21-2020, 04:53 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I do not think there ever was a promise when I purchased my Escapes, other than to complete the trailer by a certain date. I was aware of the exchange rate differential and I always paid the majority balance when the build sheet was done, therefore I did not need to worry if here were future changes. My last Escape was paid up 95% for 5 months before pick up. If you put a larger deposit the rate differential change impact is minimal.

So, you'd have no problem if ETI changed the terms after your deposit and gave you a rate at par? Same price in US or Canadian dollars.
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Old 04-21-2020, 05:01 PM   #72
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A bit of history

Back in the early 2000's we owned a place in the Palm Springs CA area. It was intersting to see how many Canadians took advantage of the exchange rate (on May 15, 2005 one Canadian $ could purchase 1.27 US$). Many Canadians took advantage of this favorable exchange rate and bought property in Palm Springs. Good for them.

Fast forward to April 21, 2020 and one Canadian $ will now purchase .7 of a US$. Escape's new US$ pricing says to me that Escape wants to profit from the currency arbitrage and not allow the US customer to do so. The Canadians sure didn't feel that way back in 2005 when the situation was reversed. I really don't have a dog in this fight at present but would probably look seriously at a 23' with dry bath and walk around bed. Would I do that if I had the feeling that I was getting screwed by the company on the exchange rate? Probably not.
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Old 04-21-2020, 05:32 PM   #73
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So, you'd have no problem if ETI changed the terms after your deposit and gave you a rate at par? Same price in US or Canadian dollars.
There was never any terms on the build sheet, my deposit was credited when they received it. I never questioned the exchange rate Tammy used and as othesr have pointed out the hidden fees by the banks and everyone involved. When the border closed and Tammy then added a fee on my build sheet, which I had already signed. When the border did reopen, I did not question it. It had not been on any of my prior Escapes but I understood it had to be paid.
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Old 04-21-2020, 06:03 PM   #74
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I do not think there ever was a promise when I purchased my Escapes, other than to complete the trailer by a certain date. I was aware of the exchange rate differential and I always paid the majority balance when the build sheet was done, therefore I did not need to worry if here were future changes. My last Escape was paid up 95% for 5 months before pick up. If you put a larger deposit the rate differential change impact is minimal.

Jim.
I'm sure your payments in USD at that time were transferred to CAD using the official exchange rate at the time, that's not the case now, ETI uses an exchange
rate SET & Fixed by themself.
That is my argument.
And the fact that I have an agreement is not recognized by the company.

You have written that ETI is now given away many "free" options, but since last year, in a time of less of 2% inflation, my 17B base price was increased 8.74%, the extra USD 3,000 should cover for a lot of the free options.
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Old 04-21-2020, 06:39 PM   #75
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Anyone who fails to understand why ETI’s current practice is wrong is choosing intentionally to not understand that. Blinders. It is simple, and has nothing to do with exchange rates.

My real heartache is losing my own personal faith in a company that always did right by their customers. ETI used to be one of that rare breed.

Their current leadership’s failure to engage on this matter makes it clear to me where their priorities lie, and it’s not with the kind of customer care that made me a true believer. Those days are over, clearly.
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Old 04-21-2020, 07:30 PM   #76
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Or as Clark Howard would say: "Customer No Care".
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Old 04-21-2020, 08:28 PM   #77
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My real heartache is losing my own personal faith in a company that always did right by their customers. ETI used to be one of that rare breed.
Yes, but you had to know that would change at least somewhat once Reace and Tammy were no longer the owners. They were the reason ETI was a rare breed, because they not only worked and acted with complete integrity, but went the extra mile. Remember the repair tour that Reace went on to fix all those 21's? What company owner would ever do that?

I knew things would change quite a bit once they sold. Hopefully ETI takes heed to all the feedback, and adjusts their policies accordingly. I don't see them ever matching the level of service Reace and Tammy had, but they can still be above the average. And the product is still solid, so there's that.
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Old 04-21-2020, 08:31 PM   #78
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Yes, but you had to know that would change at least somewhat once Reace and Tammy were no longer the owners. They were the reason ETI was a rare breed, because they not only worked and acted with complete integrity, but went the extra mile. Remember the repair tour that Reace went on to fix all those 21's? What company owner would ever do that?

I knew things would change quite a bit once they sold. Hopefully ETI takes heed to all the feedback, and adjusts their polices accordingly. I don't see them ever matching the level of service Reace and Tammy had, but they can still be above the average.

I keep hoping that you’re right, Robert. But my hope is waning. Sad. I never thought to put ETI in the same sentence with Caveat Emptor.
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Old 04-21-2020, 11:40 PM   #79
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I think that using the exchange rate at time of purchase as was done in the past was probably the most fair and transparent way to determine the price for US customers. Apparently ETI has had sufficient feedback about the uncertainty of the price with this method that they decided to move to fixed US pricing. Given that the old scheme is no longer an option, the unfairness of the new pricing scheme is because of the exchange rate they chose.

The last company I was with updated its price list once a year - I'm guessing ETI is trying to do the same - so annually they have to estimate (guess really) what exchange rate to use for a whole year that is both fair to the customer and doesn’t risk too much loss to the business. Trying to forecast where the exchange rate is going to go in the next year is a fool’s game, best bet is to assume last year’s average exchange rate and cross your fingers.

Avg. CAD to USD exchange in 2019 was 0.753. (2018 was nearly identical).
As recently as March 7, 2020, it was 0.745, so ETI probably based their exchange rate on something like 0.75+margin and then made the announcement a bit later just as the rate began to plummet.

Personally, I think their timing for this change was abysmal and that they should have held off on it. Applying the change retroactively to customers in the queue is even worse. But based on the above recent average rates and knowing ETI doesn’t have a crystal ball, an exchange rate of 0.76 or 0.77 up until mid March would have seemed reasonable to me. So while I agree their rate is unfair, I don’t think it’s as egregious as some.

On a somewhat related note, the topic of exchange rates reminds me of an episode on one of my favorite podcasts, - Freakonomics. The episode was called “The Folly of Prediction”. Well worth the listen...

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/new...of-prediction/
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:43 AM   #80
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I find it strange the conversation drifted into framing customers' expectations of an equitable market exchange rate akin to expecting some kind of "discount." That's not accurate and, frankly, bizarre logic. While companies are certainly entitled to establish their pricing structures however they see fit, it's also true that if they price it as $5 is 5 Euros is 5 Canadian then customers are going to question the underlying reasoning.

Buying property in the US when the Canadian dollar is strong is still paying the same value and not a "discount" any more than when I take a cab in Mexico and pay $5 dollars or whatever a close approximation in pesos would be is some kind of "discount." Exchanging currency from one form into another doesn't confer a "discount" and no one who works in that industry would understand it as such.

Customers looking at a 36,000 CAN price tag and calculation a $28,000 USD expenditure are not expecting a discount--they are expecting equitable market exchange, which is set by forces broader than their thoughts.

In any case, if I was holding a contractual agreement that was subsequently violated by a PR blurb, I'd be contacting the appropriate legal authorities. As some members surely know, writing "non-refundable" across the top of a contract doesn't make it true or legally defensible. Labeling unilateral breaches of contract as "unethical" or "inappropriate" is the most charitable description of such behavior, but whether the juice is worth the squeeze is up to each individual.
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