2000w Generator and Dometic 11,000 - Page 3 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Problem Solving | Owners helping each other
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-15-2021, 10:02 AM   #41
Senior Member
 
Iowa Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 6,395
Years ago I bought a small 1300 watt Honda generator for use in the field. It came with a connection (grounding lug) for grounding. We used a short piece of copper cable and a copper rod driven a couple feet into the ground as it was part of the operating instructions.

All of our on light poles were grounded with a heavy copper wire that ran down to a 5/8 inch diameter rod driven 8 feet that was 8 feet long and driven into the ground. You had to put the copper wire inside of a black plastic pipe and use big staples to affix the plastic to the poles.
This was so the meth tweakers would not steal the wire and sell it for money for “supplies”. Out of sight out of destroyed mind.
Iowa Dave
__________________

__________________
Strike while the iron is hot. Live every day as if it were your last and one day you will be right.
Dave
Iowa Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2021, 01:10 PM   #42
Senior Member
 
blue_bullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fortine, Montana
Trailer: 2016 21 Escape "Wishbone", 2017 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Dave View Post
Years ago I bought a small 1300 watt Honda generator for use in the field. It came with a connection (grounding lug) for grounding. We used a short piece of copper cable and a copper rod driven a couple feet into the ground as it was part of the operating instructions.

All of our on light poles were grounded with a heavy copper wire that ran down to a 5/8 inch diameter rod driven 8 feet that was 8 feet long and driven into the ground. You had to put the copper wire inside of a black plastic pipe and use big staples to affix the plastic to the poles.
This was so the meth tweakers would not steal the wire and sell it for money for “supplies”. Out of sight out of destroyed mind.
Iowa Dave
The instructions that came with my A-iPower Powered by Yamaha Inverter Generators read to use a ground rod for each generator, and my neighbor electrician advised to do the same. Do people on the forum use a ground rod with their generators? For testing I can use the ground rod outside my shop, but in the field I would need to pound a 4' ground rod for each generator in use.
__________________

__________________
Rob
(“You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely.” ― Ogden Nash)
blue_bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2021, 01:56 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Vermilye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 4,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_bullet View Post
The instructions that came with my A-iPower Powered by Yamaha Inverter Generators read to use a ground rod for each generator, and my neighbor electrician advised to do the same. Do people on the forum use a ground rod with their generators? For testing I can use the ground rod outside my shop, but in the field I would need to pound a 4' ground rod for each generator in use.
The configuration of ground rod(s) depends on the local soil conditions. Here in upstate NY, the local utility requires 2 8' 5/8" copper coated rods fully driven 10' apart and connected with the appropriate sized wire for the size of the service. I'd get a bit tired of that at each camping stop...

With small 120V generators, the frame is used as the ground, and grounding to the earth provides little benefit since the generator neutral is not bonded. Technically, it doesn't have a neutral...
__________________
Jon Vermilye My Travel Blog
Travel and Photo Web Page ... My Collection of RV Blogs 2018 F150 3.5EB, 2017 21
Vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2021, 02:01 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
Iowa Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 6,395
Hi Jon
Don’t let the copper lobby hear about us casual campers not wanting to drive sixteen feet of rod in the ground so we can have generator AC. They will be out buying politicians and changing camping laws all over the place faster than you can spell Anaconda.
Iowa Dave
__________________
Strike while the iron is hot. Live every day as if it were your last and one day you will be right.
Dave
Iowa Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2021, 02:08 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
blue_bullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fortine, Montana
Trailer: 2016 21 Escape "Wishbone", 2017 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Dave View Post
Hi Jon
Don’t let the copper lobby hear about us casual campers not wanting to drive sixteen feet of rod in the ground so we can have generator AC. They will be out buying politicians and changing camping laws all over the place faster than you can spell Anaconda.
Iowa Dave
Instead, I am going to learn how to "bunny hop" into my Escape.

Only one ground rod was required in MT when I built my shop. Now it is two. They like to change codes annually. Many people here now have to build above-ground septics with a pump.
__________________
Rob
(“You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely.” ― Ogden Nash)
blue_bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2021, 02:10 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
blue_bullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fortine, Montana
Trailer: 2016 21 Escape "Wishbone", 2017 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
The configuration of ground rod(s) depends on the local soil conditions. Here in upstate NY, the local utility requires 2 8' 5/8" copper coated rods fully driven 10' apart and connected with the appropriate sized wire for the size of the service. I'd get a bit tired of that at each camping stop...

With small 120V generators, the frame is used as the ground, and grounding to the earth provides little benefit since the generator neutral is not bonded. Technically, it doesn't have a neutral...
Jon,

Are you saying a ground is recommended by the manufacturer as a CYA move?
__________________
Rob
(“You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely.” ― Ogden Nash)
blue_bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2021, 03:40 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
Vermilye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 4,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_bullet View Post
Jon,

Are you saying a ground is recommended by the manufacturer as a CYA move?
A generator powering an RV without any connection to a utility supply is considered a "Separately Derived System."

While it may be a bit technical, here is a quote from OSHA pointing out parts of the US NEC regarding separately derived systems (sorry it is so long but any time one deals with the National Electrical Code, it gets "interesting"):

"In regard to a separately derived system, please be advised that the National Electrical Code (National Fire Protection Association, NFPA 70) contains information useful in determining whether a portable or vehicle-mounted electric generator is being used as part of a separately derived system. Section 250-5(d) of this code contains the following explanation:

(d) Separately Derived Systems. A premises wiring system whose power is derived from generator, transformer, or converter windings and has no direct electrical connection, including a solidly connected grounded circuit conductor, to supply conductors originating in another system...

(FPN No. 1): An alternate alternating-current power source such as an on-site generator is not a separately derived system if the neutral is solidly interconnected to a service-supplied system neutral.

Thus, a separately derived system has no direct electrical connection to another system supplying power at the jobsite, while a non-separately derived system would be directly connected to another system supplying power to the site. A non-separately derived system at the jobsite would not need to have its neutral grounded, because the service-supplied system would already provide this function. Portable and vehicle-mounted generators are typically used to provide primary power for utilization equipment on construction sites and are normally separately derived systems for the purposes of OSHA's electrical standards for construction.

In the OSHA standards for portable vehicle-mounted generators, equipment grounding conductor bonding is mentioned in 1926.404(f)(3)(i)(B) and in 1926.404(f)(3)(ii)(C). Neutral conductor bonding is mentioned in 1926.404(f)(3)(iii).

The intent of 1926.404(f)(3)(iii) becomes very clear when one considers that the term "neutral" is used in its technical sense. A 120/240 volt system has a neutral and therefore must be bonded to the generator frame. A 2-wire 120 volt system has no neutral and therefore bonding is optional. Recall that neither side of a 2-wire derived system is a neutral and when one grounds either side, it becomes a grounded terminal or conductor, but it is not a neutral."
__________________
Jon Vermilye My Travel Blog
Travel and Photo Web Page ... My Collection of RV Blogs 2018 F150 3.5EB, 2017 21
Vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2021, 07:12 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
ThomasG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA
Posts: 144
My Champion 2000w dual fuel generator running on propane will start my AC with a soft start without any problem. The running power for this generator on propane is 1440w below 1000 ft.
__________________
Thomas G.
2017 5.0 TA
2017 F-150, 5.0L, SuperCrew, 6.5' bed, 4x2, 6-speed, 1:3.55 rear axle; B&W Turnover Ball; Andersen Ultimate Aluminum Gooseneck; Fold-a-cover w/caddy
ThomasG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2021, 07:42 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
Upfisk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Yarnell, Arizona
Trailer: 2018 Escape 19
Posts: 426
Send a message via Skype™ to Upfisk
We live at 4500 ft elevation. We do not have a soft start on our Escape 19, 11000 BTU A.C.. Our Yamaha 2200 watt generator absolutely could not keep the A.C. running. We now carry a 100#, 3000 watt generator which has run the A.C. up to 8000 ft elevation with no problems. Myron in Alburquerque has installed a soft start and run his A.C. successfully with a Honda 2000. As expensive as soft starts are, you might consider installing one and using one of your Champion generators.
__________________
Myrl and Gary
Upfisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2021, 10:41 AM   #50
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Trailer: 2020 5.0 TA
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasG View Post
My Champion 2000w dual fuel generator running on propane will start my AC with a soft start without any problem. The running power for this generator on propane is 1440w below 1000 ft.
Good reference, thank you!

This suggests the AC "running" demand is less than 1440 W.

Each of my gas-powered Champion 2000W units are rated to deliver 1700 Watts running. Champion told me to expect a 3.5% loss for every 1000 ft of elevation so at my 6000 ft home, my guess is 1615 starting and 1373 running watts.

Note to self- my 2000 W generator is a 1373 W generator at 6000 ft.

Net: my single gas unit at 6000 ft does not produce as much continuous power as yours on propane at sea level... so not clear if a soft-start would allow me to run the AC here and higher.

Do you know the "peak" or start-up rated output of yours on propane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Upfisk View Post
We live at 4500 ft elevation. We do not have a soft start on our Escape 19, 11000 BTU A.C.. Our Yamaha 2200 watt generator absolutely could not keep the A.C. running. We now carry a 100#, 3000 watt generator which has run the A.C. up to 8000 ft elevation with no problems. Myron in Alburquerque has installed a soft start and run his A.C. successfully with a Honda 2000. As expensive as soft starts are, you might consider installing one and using one of your Champion generators.
Another good point of reference, thanks.

And somewhat discouraging as I guess your Yamaha puts out 1874/1561 W at your 4500 ft. if the altitude derating is the same as the Champion.

This suggests 1874 W is insufficient to start the AC as your "running" output should be higher than ThomasG's.

I guess what I'd really like to know is the actual demand of the AC unit, both at start-up and continously.

And just FYI, the attached chart is my estimated Champion output, assuming the specs and 3.5% loss/1K ft are accurate.

I'll try to figure out both the "peak" and "running" demand for my AC unit but my suspicion is my single Champion will not cut it at 8000 ft even with a soft-start. For now, I can run two in parallel and have a good shot at running my AC.
Attached Thumbnails
Champ.jpg  
Shiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 11:56 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Trailer: 2021 21NE
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytony1985 View Post
I'm having trouble finding specific information to my situation here or on the Internet or at dometic's website. I need to know if a 2000 watt generator is able to start and run the Dometic penguin high efficiency 11,000 BTU AC. The specific generator that we have is the Firman w-2000i 2000 starting Watts 1600 running Watts. I did find that the running watts of the AC unit are less than 1600, but I'm unable to find information regarding if 2,000 watts can start that particular AC unit
So, having taken possession of our trailer yesterday, I am able to answer this question I posed some time ago. The answer is YES, we can run our AC WITHOUT a soft start on the Furman W-2000i purchased from Costco. YAY!!
kathytony1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 01:38 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
MyronL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: ..., New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Esc19/'14 Silvrado
Posts: 3,777
The Firman is an excellent generator but I suggest it is wise to curb your enthusiasm. My Dometic 11,000 also ran great off my 2350 WEN generator with the easy start and I was also thrilled, but -- that was only for about 15 to 20 minutes. Then the AC totally shut down and the WEN went into overload mode. Check the owners manual for your AC and if it is the same as mine, on page 3, Specifications, it says, minimum generator size 3.5KW which translates as 3500 watts. Or, run the ac off your generator for as long as you can, to confirm you don't have to do what I must do, which is buy a second WEN and for AC run them in tandem to get those 3500 watts.
__________________
Myron
"A billion here, a billion there...add it all up and before you know it you're talking real money." Everett Dirkson
MyronL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 01:51 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Trailer: 2021 21NE
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
The Firman is an excellent generator but I suggest it is wise to curb your enthusiasm. My Dometic 11,000 also ran great off my 2350 WEN generator with the easy start and I was also thrilled, but -- that was only for about 15 to 20 minutes. Then the AC totally shut down and the WEN went into overload mode. Check the owners manual for your AC and if it is the same as mine, on page 3, Specifications, it says, minimum generator size 3.5KW which translates as 3500 watts. Or, run the ac off your generator for as long as you can, to confirm you don't have to do what I must do, which is buy a second WEN and for AC run them in tandem to get those 3500 watts.
I will check the manual when I get home. We did run it for about 25 minutes. And it was blowing nice, cold air
kathytony1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 02:14 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
Upfisk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Yarnell, Arizona
Trailer: 2018 Escape 19
Posts: 426
Send a message via Skype™ to Upfisk
Hey, come up and visit the cool pines of Prescott. The White Spar Campground is just south of Prescott on Hwy 89 and it is a lovely spot. Elevation just under 6000 ft.

Then fire up your Firman 2000 and try to run your A.C.. Our Yamaha 2200 could start the A.C., but could not restart it. Since starting amps are much higher than running amps. Again, no problem starting the A.C. initially, but as the A.C. unit cools the trailer the A.C. starts shutting down, then restarting. That is where you'll find problems.

We live just south of Prescott, so if you do come up to White Spars, contact us and we'd like to visit with another Escape owner.
__________________
Myrl and Gary
Upfisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 02:23 PM   #55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Trailer: 2021 21NE
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upfisk View Post
Hey, come up and visit the cool pines of Prescott. The White Spar Campground is just south of Prescott on Hwy 89 and it is a lovely spot. Elevation just under 6000 ft.

Then fire up your Firman 2000 and try to run your A.C.. Our Yamaha 2200 could start the A.C., but could not restart it. Since starting amps are much higher than running amps. Again, no problem starting the A.C. initially, but as the A.C. unit cools the trailer the A.C. starts shutting down, then restarting. That is where you'll find problems.

We live just south of Prescott, so if you do come up to White Spars, contact us and we'd like to visit with another Escape owner.
We just might take you up on that! We are thinking our first trip will be to Bisbee next month over the Columbus Day weekend. But there is always November.
kathytony1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 02:50 PM   #56
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Trailer: 2020 5.0 TA
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytony1985 View Post
So, having taken possession of our trailer yesterday, I am able to answer this question I posed some time ago. The answer is YES, we can run our AC WITHOUT a soft start on the Furman W-2000i purchased from Costco. YAY!!
Congrats! I'm sure this made you happy.

What was the altitude?

We were camping at 10,200 ft and found our 2000W Champion would not power a Keurig. As I understand, this brewer eats 1500 Watts, so the power loss is consistent with the altitude derating estimate I posted earlier.

I'm still debating whether I can find a "low weight" single generator solution to powering our AC where we typically camp (7000 to 10000 ft).

I think a 2200 W Generator under 60 lbs would be a great solution, but it's just not yet clear if this would power our AC, even with a soft start.

Even better would be a propane-powered generator but that has another "derating" penalty vs gas. I haven't looked too hard but I'm not aware of a 3KW generator that I want to lug around so I may have to accept running two 2KW units.
Shiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 03:18 PM   #57
Senior Member
 
Upfisk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Yarnell, Arizona
Trailer: 2018 Escape 19
Posts: 426
Send a message via Skype™ to Upfisk
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytony1985 View Post
We just might take you up on that! We are thinking our first trip will be to Bisbee next month over the Columbus Day weekend. But there is always November.
Nov, finally might get to temps that you do not need an A.C., sooner is better for testing. Right now we have high 80s as the high and mid 50s as the low. You could even check your furnace sail switch the same day you check your A.C. unit.

And we'd love to see a 21NE in the "flesh"
__________________
Myrl and Gary
Upfisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 03:40 PM   #58
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Colfax, California
Trailer: 10/29/21 pick up for Escape 21C
Posts: 132
There might be hidden variables afoot here. We got our 2K Yamaha to start the 9K on our Airstream Basecamp about 60% of the time at 2,200 feet. Finally decided to pass on hauling it (the generator) around.
bborzell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:23 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Trailer: 2021 21NE
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
Congrats! I'm sure this made you happy.

What was the altitude?

We were camping at 10,200 ft and found our 2000W Champion would not power a Keurig. As I understand, this brewer eats 1500 Watts, so the power loss is consistent with the altitude derating estimate I posted earlier.

I'm still debating whether I can find a "low weight" single generator solution to powering our AC where we typically camp (7000 to 10000 ft).

I think a 2200 W Generator under 60 lbs would be a great solution, but it's just not yet clear if this would power our AC, even with a soft start.

Even better would be a propane-powered generator but that has another "derating" penalty vs gas. I haven't looked too hard but I'm not aware of a 3KW generator that I want to lug around so I may have to accept running two 2KW units.
We just picked up the trailer so we're at home in Mesa Arizona which is only 1,240 ft above sea level. LOL
We're going through everything and checking it out to make sure everything works and there are no issues with any of the appliances and water, tanks, etc. I'm sure we'll have a very different experience at higher elevation. Everyone else seems to!
kathytony1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 10:35 PM   #60
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Trailer: 2020 5.0 TA
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytony1985 View Post
...1,240 ft above sea level. ...
Thanks!
__________________

Shiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.
×