DC to DC Charger ?s

[Centex]

Originally Posted by MVA

... At about 11:15, the Vicron presenter covers why one needs a current limiter with Li batteries. Good information. In the slide at 12:30, four options are presented to mitigate the concerns including an Orion DC-DC converter. Odd.

Not so odd, IMO, as the primary purpose of the video is to talk about TV alternator current protection concerns and the appropriate Orion Tr DC-DC Converter (e.g. your 12|12-9 amp unit) can serve to mitigate those concerns.

Note the later discussions about use of the Victron Buck-Boost vs Orion Smart Charger ... either can address the stated alternator protection concerns, but between those two approaches only the Orion Smart Charger offers the multi-stage output for 'optimized maximum' LiFePO4 charging when the LiFePO4 'optimal' battery voltage is above the TV alternator / battery voltage. The Orion TR Converter with fixed output voltage is analogous to the Victron Buck-Boost in that respect.

I have no idea how a high-current (>~9A) demand DC-DC Charger would 'play' with my F150's 225amp alternator / charging system with all of its 'sophisticated' electronic charging controls; I do know the ampacity of the truck's OE 7-pin charge wire harness is a limiting factor, so modification / upgrade of that would be required if I wanted to accommodate a 'significant' trailer charging-current demand.

I just decided to play it safe and to not 'go there' on my expensive in-warranty truck, it's beyond my personal risk tolerance / comfort zone. YMMV, no worries!

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Centex

...
I've not investigated how a unit intended as a low current / higher voltage 'solar controller' might be used in this application though I've read mention that might be possible.
...

Anyone with the "cheap" gene and the time and equipment can play around with this type of DC-DC converter.

They can be found on Amazon and Ebay in various sizes. Personally, I would take the power ratings with a very large spoon of salt and would use conservative fuses on both ends. I am close to using one for my fishing applications (various LiFePo4 Lithium batteries).

Note: Anyone worried about "reverse" charging - high Lithium voltage going back to lower tow vehicle battery - can put a simple diode (high amperage of course) in series.

https://www.amazon.com/Aideepen-Conv...14&sr=8-6&th=1

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

My RMD8555 Dometic died last June and I replaced it with a Norcold 12v compressor refrigerator, with which I am most pleased. I have two 100 amp hour Battleborn lithium batteries for a total capacity of 200 amp hours, and one 160 watt solar panel. I am considering installing a DC to DC charger in order to feed the batteries when towing. While I am very familiar with most things electrical, I know nothing about DC to DC chargers.

If there is a forum member who has installed a DC to DC charging system and is willing to PM me detailed how to instructions, I would truly appreciate your insights. The things I need to know are what components are needed and where they should be installed. Recommendations of specific manufacturer part numbers would also be appreciated.

I need to know:

1. How to protect the alternator in my F-150. I am making the assumption that direct connection to the alternator’s output or the F-150’s battery is the starting point.

2. Wire gauge required from the tow vehicle to the trailer and how to get the wire into the trailer. I’m guessing I would have to add some kind of a connector to the front of the trailer and continue running the wire under the trailer to a sealed hole in the floor near the batteries. Would I need to run a ground wire from the tow vehicle also or can I just ground to the trailer’s frame?

3. What components are needed at the battery? Again, I am guessing this is where the actual DC to DC charger should be located. What gauge wire is needed to connect the charger to the battery? And finally, does the DC to DC charger need to be isolated to protect it from damage when connected to shore power when the converter takes over charging the batteries?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can enlighten me.

I do like Escape does and run my DC to DC charger off the power coming in on the 7 pin connector. I use a Renogy 20 amp DV to DC charger set to 10 amps, so it doesn't exceed the rating of the 7 pin connector. I have the DC to DC charger switched on by the trailer lights which I have on when I'm towing. That way when I'm parked the DC to DC charger doesn't drain my tow vehicles battery.

If you're wanting to charge with higher amperages you have to do what you appear to be talking about. But, since driving for 5 hours charges 50 amp hours in addition to the charge from the solar panel I find it adequate.

I have a total of 500 amp hours of lithium in my trailer, so I've got a fair amount of buffer capacity if I don't get adequate charging.

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

I do like Escape does and run my DC to DC charger off the power coming in on the 7 pin connector. I use a Renogy 20 amp DV to DC charger set to 10 amps, so it doesn't exceed the rating of the 7 pin connector. I have the DC to DC charger switched on by the trailer lights which I have on when I'm towing. That way when I'm parked the DC to DC charger doesn't drain my tow vehicles battery.

If you're wanting to charge with higher amperages you have to do what you appear to be talking about. But, since driving for 5 hours charges 50 amp hours in addition to the charge from the solar panel I find it adequate.

I have a total of 500 amp hours of lithium in my trailer, so I've got a fair amount of buffer capacity if I don't get adequate charging.

We have the ETI setup on ours with the Victron DC to DC converter on the Escape wired to the 7pin. It has Bluetooth so we can check on it while driving. Seems to be doing the job and our ‘22 F150 hasn’t had any issues either.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by SageRpod

We have the ETI setup on ours with the Victron DC to DC converter on the Escape wired to the 7pin. It has Bluetooth so we can check on it while driving. Seems to be doing the job and our ‘22 F150 hasn’t had any issues either.

heh, with the Orion in the back of my E21C, I could never reach its bluetooth from the drivers seat of my F250 diesel long bed. the truck was 21 feet long, and so was the trailer, so it was probably 35 feet from the drivers seat to the Orion...

[jjdeluca]

Originally Posted by SageRpod

We have the ETI setup on ours with the Victron DC to DC converter on the Escape wired to the 7pin. It has Bluetooth so we can check on it while driving. Seems to be doing the job and our ‘22 F150 hasn’t had any issues either.

Did Escape actually install the Victron DC-DC Converter in your 5.0? In the ETI video Karl indicates that they were using the Victron Orion TR (12/12-18) Smart DC-DC Charger, but perhaps things have changed. Also, wondering did you order your trailer with Lithium or Lead Acid batteries? Thanks,
Jim

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by jjdeluca

Did Escape actually install the Victron DC-DC Converter in your 5.0? In the ETI video Karl indicates that they were using the Victron Orion TR (12/12-18) Smart DC-DC Charger, but perhaps things have changed. Also, wondering did you order your trailer with Lithium or Lead Acid batteries? Thanks,
Jim

That is the model DC-DC we have and it was installed by ETI. The charger is installed in the access cubby for the jack controls toward the front of the 5.0 so there is only about a 15’ haul to the batteries. Our Escape was probably one of the last, if not the last of the lottery trailers. If I remember the DC-DC charger was standard with Lithium batteries. The trailer came with two, we added another two.

[Flat Lander]

Hello Gino (SageRpod) any chance you could take a picture or two? It would be nice to see how ETI installed it.

Thanks Neil

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by Flat Lander

Hello Gino (SageRpod) any chance you could take a picture or two? It would be nice to see how ETI installed it.

Thanks Neil

Sure. We’re on the road but will be happy to snap some picks and upload them when we get some WiFi.

[Flat Lander]

Originally Posted by SageRpod

Sure. We’re on the road but will be happy to snap some picks and upload them when we get some WiFi.

No rush enjoy your journey.

[SageRpod]

Had some time to take a picture of the Victron Orion on the 5.0. From what I can tell, the +/- on the input side go to the +/- on the trailer 7 pin connector. There appears to be a jumper from the - on the load to the - on the input, however I can’t tell for sure without removing the unit. The mystery to me are the 2 wires coming off the + on the load side. Every wiring diagram I have looked only have only one positive wire going to the house batteries. FWIW, there are literally dozens of YouTube videos on installing this model charger, especially the 30amp which seems the most popular but is basically the same except it doesn’t limit to 18amps.

[splitting_lanes]

Originally Posted by SageRpod

Had some time to take a picture of the Victron Orion on the 5.0. From what I can tell, the +/- on the input side go to the +/- on the trailer 7 pin connector. There appears to be a jumper from the - on the load to the - on the input, however I can’t tell for sure without removing the unit. The mystery to me are the 2 wires coming off the + on the load side. Every wiring diagram I have looked only have only one positive wire going to the house batteries. FWIW, there are literally dozens of YouTube videos on installing this model charger, especially the 30amp which seems the most popular but is basically the same except it doesn’t limit to 18amps.

I think the extra wire on the load side goes to the power jacks — so they work when you aren’t hooked up.

[SRS]

Originally Posted by SageRpod

Had some time to take a picture of the Victron Orion on the 5.0. From what I can tell, the +/- on the input side go to the +/- on the trailer 7 pin connector. There appears to be a jumper from the - on the load to the - on the input, however I can’t tell for sure without removing the unit. The mystery to me are the 2 wires coming off the + on the load side. Every wiring diagram I have looked only have only one positive wire going to the house batteries. FWIW, there are literally dozens of YouTube videos on installing this model charger, especially the 30amp which seems the most popular but is basically the same except it doesn’t limit to 18amps.

My 17A has Escapes full lithium package and they wired mine the same way. Your lucky they put ferrule or something on the wire ends because they didn't on mine. I rewired it using a Wago connector (yes I put tape around the levers so they can't accidentally open) to join the two output wires and use ferrules on the wires connected to the converter.
In the photo of my trailer plug pin-box, you can see they connected the 10AWG (black) to a 8AWG (red) without attaching to a pin so they run straight through the box which then goes to the charger. The 8AWG output wire from the charger goes to the batteries and the 10AWG wire goes back to the pin-box and attaches to the second pin from the right to power the trailer breakaway and other things like my electric jack. Also attached is the wiring diagram Samuel sent me.
FYI, the used a 10AWG butt connector in the pin-box to connect the wires but didn't crimp the connector. It all worked but when I saw that I replace the but connector and crimped it.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by SageRpod

Had some time to take a picture of the Victron Orion on the 5.0. From what I can tell, the +/- on the input side go to the +/- on the trailer 7 pin connector. There appears to be a jumper from the - on the load to the - on the input, however I can’t tell for sure without removing the unit. The mystery to me are the 2 wires coming off the + on the load side. Every wiring diagram I have looked only have only one positive wire going to the house batteries. FWIW, there are literally dozens of YouTube videos on installing this model charger, especially the 30amp which seems the most popular but is basically the same except it doesn’t limit to 18amps.

There should be a jumper across the negatives because with the isolated unit you will lose your brakes if you isolate the ground. The trailer and tow vehicle frames are considered one common ground. You can either use a jumper to negate the unit isolation or buy a non-isolated unit. The smallest Victron non-isolated unit is a 30A model so the workaround is to just jumper the negative.

This post linked below should explain the second red wire on the output side. This is so there is always trailer battery power going to the breakaway switch and power jack(s) (if applicable). Please note that I modified the Escape provided graphic as it was not correct.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post418153

On edit I see that SRS and I are saying the same thing. Glad to see Escape corrected their diagram! Just note that my diagram shows the second lug from right being a node for the tow vehicle +12V instead of passing directly through the 7-pin box and the third node from right (usually reserved for back-up lights) is used as a the +12V node coming back from the output side of the DC-DC charger to provide the constant trailer battery power to breakaway and power jack(s). Electrically it's equivalent but just executed differently.

[MVA]

So given this thread, I decided to get some data. I reduced the charge on a 100 Ahr LiFePO4 to 70%. I then connect the 7 pin connector on our F150 to the trailer (solar off, shore power off) and monitored the battery charging current and the DC-DC input voltage.

The battery charging current (as measured by a battery shunt) was about 8 1/2 amps. As expected given we have a Victron 9 amp DC-DC converter. The DC-DC input voltage was only ~9.3 volts; lower than expected. When I disconnected the DC-DC converter from charging the battery (I have a switch installed to do so), the open circuit input voltage to the DC-DC converter rose to 15+ volts. I measured that same voltage at the truck battery.

So what does this mean? The truck input current was about 13 amps (based on the battery charging power and an assumed 10% conversion loss). It is surprising that the voltage from the truck dropped 5 1/2 volts.

YMMV

[Centex]

Originally Posted by MVA

So given this thread, I decided to get some data. I reduced the charge on a 100 Ahr LiFePO4 to 70%. I then connect the 7 pin connector on our F150 to the trailer (solar off, shore power off) and monitored the battery charging current and the DC-DC input voltage. .....

Was this data collected with the truck parked and running at idle, or ...?

With apology if I missed it in an earlier post, what year and engine is your F150?

Asking because I have the Ford Service Manual for 2021+ F150 with some narrative explanation of the behavior of the "Smart" charging system I can post if that's applicable and of interest (sometimes "Smart" behavior isn't what one might expect due to Ford's emphasis on minimizing engine load / maximizing fuel economy).

[SRS]

Originally Posted by Centex

Was this data collected with the truck parked and running at idle, or ...?

With apology if I missed it in an earlier post, what year and engine is your F150?

Asking because I have the Ford Service Manual for 2021+ F150 with some narrative explanation of the behavior of the "Smart" charging system I can post if that's applicable and of interest (sometimes "Smart" behavior isn't what one might expect due to Ford's emphasis on minimizing engine load / maximizing fuel economy).

Hi Centex, I'd be interested in Fords explanation regarding the behavior of the smart charging system if it isn't too big a deal to post. TIA

[MVA]

Originally Posted by Centex

Was this data collected with the truck parked and running at idle, or ...?

With apology if I missed it in an earlier post, what year and engine is your F150?

Asking because I have the Ford Service Manual for 2021+ F150 with some narrative explanation of the behavior of the "Smart" charging system I can post if that's applicable and of interest (sometimes "Smart" behavior isn't what one might expect due to Ford's emphasis on minimizing engine load / maximizing fuel economy).

Our 2015 F150 has an "interesting" charging system. If you start the truck, leave in park, and plug in the 7-pin, no charging current will flow. If you then put truck in drive, and then put back in park, current will flow.

edit: 2.7l engine

[Flat Lander]

Thank You SageRpod. This is turning into a very interesting topic, I am taking lots of screenshots and saving it to my Google Drive for future reference. It is nice to see that you do not have to run other wires from the TV for this device to work. If I am concerned about draining my trucks battery all I have to do is unplug the trailer from my truck like I did 20 years ago when we had our Award 723.

Thanks, Neil

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by Flat Lander

Thank You SageRpod. This is turning into a very interesting topic, I am taking lots of screenshots and saving it to my Google Drive for future reference. It is nice to see that you do not have to run other wires from the TV for this device to work. If I am concerned about draining my trucks battery all I have to do is unplug the trailer from my truck like I did 20 years ago when we had our Award 723.

Thanks, Neil

Even with the smart DC-DC that breaks the TV to house battery circuit, I still unplug. Old habits are hard to break and I have trust issues as well.