Maine Moose Hunt Electrical Failure

[Besauve]

While on a "once-in-a-lifetime" moose hunt with my Maine resident daughter in the North Maine Woods this October, I experienced an electrical failure. Specifically, the circuit(s) which control the passenger side outdoor GFCI outlet, the passenger side dining outlet, the outlet in the kitchen area, and the microwave would no longer work.

I noticed the GFCI outlet outside (which a Starlink system was plugged into at the time) would no longer reset, so after the hunt I replaced that outlet thinking that was the problem. But, unfortunately, that didn't solve it.

Looking at the panel, I don't see any breakers tripped (I reset them all) and I don't see any fuses blown.

Anyone have any ideas on next steps to take?

I have a 2019 21C Escape. Thank you for any guidance you might provide.

[alanmalk]

A starting point would be to unplug all devices on that circuit. You mentioned the microwave, so unplug that and confirm that nothing else is connected. Let us know the outcome.


And a general comment: Blown fuses and tripped breakers indicate a major fault, typically a short circuit. A tripped GFIC happens when a tiny bit of power goes where it shouldn't. Hunting down a tiny leak is challenging as you will find out.

[Ron in BC]

When you had the GFCI removed and prior to installing the new one did you test that the wire was receiving 110 volts?

Can you check that now, from the hot terminal and a jumper to a known ground. It could point the direction to go.

Ron

[Viajante]

Besuave, were you plugged into shore power or using the inverter while hunting in the north woods of Maine? If you were using the inverter it could be a transfer switch issue.

Is the microwave part of the GFI circuit? I thought microwave was on its own circuit. Would it go out if the GFI tripped?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Besauve

Looking at the panel, I don't see any breakers tripped (I reset them all) and I don't see any fuses blown.

Do you have the inverter with all outlets powered option? If so you have a second gray breaker box somewhere under a seat near the power center that has two additional 15A breakers. Make sure to check those. Not the best picture but it looks like this.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Viajante

Besuave, were you plugged into shore power or using the inverter while hunting in the north woods of Maine? If you were using the inverter it could be a transfer switch issue.

Is the microwave part of the GFI circuit? I thought microwave was on its own circuit. Would it go out if the GFI tripped?

The microwaves have never had a dedicated circuit to my knowledge. Owners have been fooled by the sticker up in the cabinet that says "For Microwave Use Only". That doesn't mean its on a dedicated circuit. I think it's there to keep people from plugging in ordinary things and potentially having a cord draping out of the cabinet. Also bear in mind that when a GFCI outlet trips it only takes out itself and any outlets wired downstream. Any outlets upstream on the same circuit would be unaffected.

[Viajante]

Rubicon327, thanks for the correction on the microwave. I was thinking there was a separate breaker for the mw when I posted the comment but I just went out to check and there isn’t one—just one for the outlets.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Do you have the inverter with all outlets powered option? If so you have a second gray breaker box somewhere under a seat near the power center that has two additional 15A breakers.

Ah yes, that hidden box has tripped (no pun) up folks before.

Ron

[Besauve]

Hey guys. Thank you for the advice and questions. Sorry for the delay. I had to go to an off-site property to access my camper and research these matters.

I unplugged the one device in the non-working outlets, that was the microwave. When I installed the new GFCI (passenger side outside outlet), I did not see that there was any current running to that outlet. When I had this issue in Maine, I was under shore power. I do have an inverter and that is still working fine. I have also checked the two breakers under the DS dinette seat. I checked all of the DC fuses and they are good.

I did an inventory of my outlets in the trailer and found:

Nonworking outlets - (1) PS outside; (2) kitchen cabinet outlet; (3) PS dinette outlet; (4) microwave dedicated outlet; and (5) bedroom area optional cabinet outlet. The outlets for the microwave, dinette and bedroom area show a very weak sign of power (slight glimmer of light when I plug in a tester, but nothing like a working outlet).

Working outlets - (1) DS dinette outlet; and (2) DS drawer set outlet (above USB and 12v outlet which also works).

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Besauve

... Nonworking outlets - (1) PS outside; (2) kitchen cabinet outlet; (3) PS dinette outlet; (4) microwave dedicated outlet; and (5) bedroom area optional cabinet outlet. The outlets for the microwave, dinette and bedroom area show a very weak sign of power (slight glimmer of light when I plug in a tester, but nothing like a working outlet). ....

I'm going to venture a guess that all of those are on the same breaker in your WFCO panel?

IF yes, with NO power to the trailer, in the WFCO panel I'd:

• Ensure the setscrew holding the wire in the breaker is tight
• Ensure all of the screws for the neutral return wire bus are tight
• while you're at it, ensure all the screws for the bare ground wire bus are tight.

Power-up and see what you've got.

If that does not yield joy I'd disconnect power again and swap the wires at the breaker with those on the breaker supporting the working outlets (a defective breaker is rare, but it does happen) to see if the problem 'follows the breaker'.

Good Luck!

[SageRpod]

Besauve, I am positive you did this but want to mention anyway; make sure you have the right wires going to Load and Line. I have seen GFCIs where the location for Load and Line are swapped when compared to the outlet being replaced.

More importantly, how did the moose hunt go?

[Iowa Dave]

Yes more importantly.
Iowa Dave

[JohnK]

From the peanut gallery here Besuave, my two past problems with GFCIs have both been caused by burned out water heater electric elements. Yes I inadvertently left the electric element on after draining the water heater then plugging back into shore power. GFCIs will sense ground fault with a burned out element even if the electric water heater circuit breaker is tripped as long even just one lead to the element is still connected to a burned out element. Just another bunny trail for you to go down and eliminate as a problem.

John

[rubicon327]

Unlikely the GFI is the problem. If it was bad only devices downstream would be impacted. Unless Escape is doing something drastically different with their wiring all of the mentioned non-working outlets are not downstream. Something is going on upstream. I think checking all the breaker connections and even swapping breakers is the best advice to try next.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Centex

If that does not yield joy I'd disconnect power again and swap the wires at the breaker with those on the breaker supporting the working outlets (a defective breaker is rare, but it does happen) to see if the problem 'follows the breaker'.

Good Luck!

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I think checking all the breaker connections and even swapping breakers is the best advice to try next.

I agree, troubleshooting by substitution can be very helpful.

Ron

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Besauve

Hey guys. Thank you for the advice and questions. Sorry for the delay. I had to go to an off-site property to access my camper and research these matters.

I unplugged the one device in the non-working outlets, that was the microwave. When I installed the new GFCI (passenger side outside outlet), I did not see that there was any current running to that outlet. When I had this issue in Maine, I was under shore power. I do have an inverter and that is still working fine. I have also checked the two breakers under the DS dinette seat. I checked all of the DC fuses and they are good.

I did an inventory of my outlets in the trailer and found:

Nonworking outlets - (1) PS outside; (2) kitchen cabinet outlet; (3) PS dinette outlet; (4) microwave dedicated outlet; and (5) bedroom area optional cabinet outlet. The outlets for the microwave, dinette and bedroom area show a very weak sign of power (slight glimmer of light when I plug in a tester, but nothing like a working outlet).

Working outlets - (1) DS dinette outlet; and (2) DS drawer set outlet (above USB and 12v outlet which also works).

If half your outlets are working, that likely means one of the breakers in the secondary breaker box is tripped.

Since you have an inverter and a transfer switch, you also have a second breaker box outside of the WFCO Power Center. Find that box, reset those breakers.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

If half your outlets are working, that likely means one of the breakers in the secondary breaker box is tripped.

Since you have an inverter and a transfer switch, you also have a second breaker box outside of the WFCO Power Center. Find that box, reset those breakers.

TT: I mentioned these additional breakers in post #5 and Besauve followed up in post #9 that they were checked.

Originally Posted by Besauve

I do have an inverter and that is still working fine. I have also checked the two breakers under the DS dinette seat.

[Vermilye]

When checking breakers & connections, don't forget the neutral connection...

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

TT: I mentioned these additional breakers in post #5 and Besauve followed up in post #9 that they were checked.

When 'checking breakers' they need to be turned off and back on. Some breakers will trip to a kind of middle position that doesn't look any different than an On/Set breaker, especially under a dinette seat. Pushing those breakers to the on position won't reset them and doesn't feel much different than a non-tripped breaker. Those breakers need to be turned off and then back on to reset them.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

When 'checking breakers' they need to be turned off and back on. Some breakers will trip to a kind of middle position that doesn't look any different than an On/Set breaker, especially under a dinette seat. Pushing those breakers to the on position won't reset them and doesn't feel much different than a non-tripped breaker. Those breakers need to be turned off and then back on to reset them.

Good point. I know that but maybe others don’t. A visual is not enough of a check. The breakers need to be cycled.