Battery electric Pebble trailer

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

Dream on, MacDuff:
https://www.businessinsider.com/auto...eid=31832528ac

BEV future is bleak.

Financially bleak, for some legacy automakers. The herd is now going in a new direction. Hydrogen powered fuel cells vehicles. Can't wait for that one
.
I've had a BEV for a year now. Love it. I never planned to tow with it.

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

Financially bleak, for some legacy automakers. The herd is now going in a new direction. Hydrogen powered fuel cells vehicles. Can't wait for that one
.
I've had a BEV for a year now. Love it. I never planned to tow with it.

Yah. Both Tesla and BYD (the big boys on the Ev block) are seeing heathy year over year growth and healthy margins. I think the legacy manufacturers are going to have a hard time staying in the industry. They’ll still be able to sell their ICE products in North America for a few decades, but Europe and Asia will be primarily EV by 2030. Legacy manufacturers will see a continuously shrinking market unless trade blocks are put up real fast to block European and Asian manufacturers. No way they can compete.

Jmho.

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Downsized

Yah. Both Tesla and BYD (the big boys on the Ev block) are seeing heathy year over year growth and healthy margins. I think the legacy manufacturers are going to have a hard time staying in the industry. They’ll still be able to sell their ICE products in North America for a few decades, but Europe and Asia will be primarily EV by 2030. Legacy manufacturers will see a continuously shrinking market unless trade blocks are put up real fast to block European and Asian manufacturers. No way they can compete.

Jmho.

https://mailchi.mp/aef777587a4c/auto...4?e=31832528ac

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

https://mailchi.mp/aef777587a4c/auto...4?e=31832528ac

Exactly. They are going to half to figure out the secret sauce from Tesla and BYD. It’s going to be an interesting decade.

[emers382]

An interesting decade indeed. It's worthwhile considering where the power for these EV's come from. In China the greatest proportion of electricity comes from coal and they're continuing to build more plants. Germany has just restarted a coal plant due to the shortage of power generated by their renewables (i.e. unreliables) wind and solar, and the shutting down of their last nuclear plants earlier this year. Tom who sometimes mentions his Bolt EV likely realizes that in WI still 36% of electricity is generated by coal.

We live in a province where 97% is hydroelectricity so owning an EV here does make sense however it would be long time before we would consider an EV especially since we only have one vehicle and we need to tow.

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/i...1010160943.jpg

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by emers382

An interesting decade indeed. It's worthwhile considering where the power for these EV's come from. In China the greatest proportion of electricity comes from coal and they're continuing to build more plants. Germany has just restarted a coal plant due to the shortage of power generated by their renewables (i.e. unreliables) wind and solar, and the shutting down of their last nuclear plants earlier this year. Tom who sometimes mentions his Bolt EV likely realizes that in WI still 36% of electricity is generated by coal.

We live in a province where 97% is hydroelectricity so owning an EV here does make sense however it would be long time before we would consider an EV especially since we only have one vehicle and we need to tow.

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/i...1010160943.jpg

Sure but the majority of new power added to the grid comes from renewables. Just in solar alone the world is adding 1 GW of capacity every single day. Literally the capacity of a nuclear power plant every day, and China is leading the way. In 20 years the grid make up will be a lot different than it is today.

[HABBERDABBER]

I don't operate a BEV in order to do my part to save the world from climate catastrophe. Likely a bit too late for that, and it would take massive, integrated international co-operation for that effort. Good luck with that one.

I have it to use as a niche vehicle for local travel. For that, it's swell.

And the Pebble is to me an innovative evolution of trailering with new and useful features.
Let the nattering nabobs of negativity have their say.
I know what works for me.

[emers382]

Originally Posted by Downsized

Sure but the majority of new power added to the grid comes from renewables. Just in solar alone the world is adding 1 GW of capacity every single day. Literally the capacity of a nuclear power plant every day, and China is leading the way. In 20 years the grid make up will be a lot different than it is today.

Yes maybe the new power added in the west but look at China. a quote from the linked article on CNN. It might only be 63% in 2022 according to Statista.
"China is now more reliant on coal for power than it was last year. In July, electricity generated from coal increased 22% from June, accounting for 69% of the total. Last year, coal-fired power made up 67.4% of China’s electricity supply"
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/23/econo...hnk/index.html

And Tom I might be considered a nattering nabob of negativity but my understanding of the facts of electricity production leads me to believe that no matter how much wind and solar are added to power the world (which if it goes to EV's, heat pumps, all electric appliances, etc as well as what we use today) it will never be enough to rid the world of the use of fossil fuels.

And what about the over 6000 products which keep our modern world running made of oil derivatives.

Back to the theme of this thread. This new electric trailer would likely be good for anyone trying to tow with an EV presently and having range anxiety.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Downsized

Sure but the majority of new power added to the grid comes from renewables. Just in solar alone the world is adding 1 GW of capacity every single day. Literally the capacity of a nuclear power plant every day, and China is leading the way. In 20 years the grid make up will be a lot different than it is today.

I don't know about that. Here we are with the massively expensive Site C finally coming online with enough power to power 450,000 homes. We build over 50,000 new homes a year. So in 9 years or less it'll only be capable of powering the equivalent of the new homes. BC will never be suitable for solar and there's a lot of opposition to wind farms.

To add to the mix is the prohibition of new homes being heated by natural gas. Seems like only yesterday the government was pushing clean burning natural gas.

In the meantime we ship coal to China. I've been in some areas of China where you can stare directly at the mid-day sun and your blue jacket turns black.

I'm not that optimistic that we'll be able to abandon some of the traditional power generating sources nearly as fast as some folks think.

Ron

[Iowa Dave]

53 years ago my fiancé and I attended the first earth day lecture at Iowa State University. Dr Paul Erlich was the speaker. His message was sobering and while his predictions didn’t all come true, it changed the way of thinking for many young people. His message could be summed up as “Do what you canto help the environment”. 45 days later I was planting trees for the US Forest service by the thousand in clear cut old growth forest. Returning to Iowa after spotting many forest fires from out lookout tower near the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness, we embarked on our careers of education and natural resources used for outdoor recreation.

It has been a sweet ride, watching former students and our children become engineers, doctors, teachers and parents. In that time I initiated memorial tree plantings for the cities where I worked, implemented recycling programs, kept abreast of energy saving utility practices and products and cooperated with hundreds of volunteers to help clean up trash that thousands of slobs left behind.

Personally we have purchased our last home and installed a metal roof unfazed by a 142 mph derecho, installed highly energy efficient windows and doors, installed geothermal heating and cooling, and three years ago a 7.6 kWh solar array in the rear of our property which provides us with 100% of our electrical needs. We had it sized at installation to be able to add enough panels to keep an EV charged when we get one. We will use the EV for the numerous short trips we take going into town.

I have lived the dream, I’ve done what I could and though I don’t have a second or third home I’m happy where I am and do not regret the time out my life that I’ve spent being good to the environment. Our farm ground still has the 35 foot wide fence rows filled with wildlife and song birds, our 11 acre wetland of black soil filled with grasses, sedges, and amphibious wildlife has NEVER seen a steel plow and has Federal recognition. Do what you can to make the world a better place for those who come after has been our mantra for over 53 years.
Have a great week, I hope I get a pie for Halloween from the big Granny Smith apples I picked just before the frost. They are better than candy.
Iowa Dave

[SteveSgt]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

Good luck on waiting for much better batteries. They do advance 3% or more each year, but there's no breakthroughs on the near term horizon. It's about battery cost reduction thru different chemistries, not more energy density (size /power to propel).

I'm more optimistic about this. Physicists know of battery chemistries with higher energy densities, but it'll take some clever engineering to make them safe and manufacturable.

I also have some confidence in efficiency improvements that would extend battery life by 150% to 300%. As only one easy-to-explain example: So-called "super-capacitors", while not being efficient for long-term storage, can be better than 99% efficient for short-term storage. Many batteries are far more efficient at low discharge rates than at higher discharge rates. One of the battery extension technologies already being used in mobile phones and coming soon to EVs are "multi-stage" power systems, where super-capacitors handle the high surge demand, leaving the batteries to discharge at more moderate rates.

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by emers382

Yes maybe the new power added in the west but look at China. a quote from the linked article on CNN. It might only be 63% in 2022 according to Statista.
"China is now more reliant on coal for power than it was last year. In July, electricity generated from coal increased 22% from June, accounting for 69% of the total. Last year, coal-fired power made up 67.4% of China’s electricity supply"
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/23/econo...hnk/index.html

And Tom I might be considered a nattering nabob of negativity but my understanding of the facts of electricity production leads me to believe that no matter how much wind and solar are added to power the world (which if it goes to EV's, heat pumps, all electric appliances, etc as well as what we use today) it will never be enough to rid the world of the use of fossil fuels.

And what about the over 6000 products which keep our modern world running made of oil derivatives.

Back to the theme of this thread. This new electric trailer would likely be good for anyone trying to tow with an EV presently and having range anxiety.

I doubt there is movement to stop using petroleum completely. At least not that I have seen. There is some movement to reduce its use as fuel though. Makes sense. There are lots of alternatives being developed as technology advances.

China continues to add renewables faster than anyone. But they are a big economy and population. It all takes time.

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I don't know about that. Here we are with the massively expensive Site C finally coming online with enough power to power 450,000 homes. We build over 50,000 new homes a year. So in 9 years or less it'll only be capable of powering the equivalent of the new homes. BC will never be suitable for solar and there's a lot of opposition to wind farms.

To add to the mix is the prohibition of new homes being heated by natural gas. Seems like only yesterday the government was pushing clean burning natural gas.

In the meantime we ship coal to China. I've been in some areas of China where you can stare directly at the mid-day sun and your blue jacket turns black.

I'm not that optimistic that we'll be able to abandon some of the traditional power generating sources nearly as fast as some folks think.

Ron

Solar works in some locations in BC. On grid solar homes are getting more common where we are. One of our car group friends has an on grid solar home. They produce enough solar to have an annual surplus. They have 3 EV’s in their household and charge primarily at home. Cool set up.

I doubt there will be much wind or solar energy in BC in the next decade. Alberta is developing both pretty quick though.

[HABBERDABBER]

Interesting, but not surprising, how this thread started with a link to a new and innovative all electric travel trailer with a traction battery to assist in towing and long term boondocking capability.
And now it has devolved into statements & positions of national energy policy, and pictures of apples.
Pebbles to apples, I guess.

[Iowa Dave]

The apples comment came from Doctor Paul’s question “would you buy a wormy apple? This was the same era as Racheal Carson’s Silent Spring. I took that to heart when I developed my little orchard. I do not spray the trees with pesticides. They can be wormy. However my experience butchering in a large packing house allows me to get a paring knife razor sharp. So while I do not often get an entire apple and I throw some parts away that are wormy, I grow enough to enjoy all we can possibly eat and still give bushels away. I just ask the recipients “You got a paring knife don’t ya?”

If I had the money to buy a Pebble and needed a camper I’d use part of it to buy a 13,14,15 or early 16 Escape and the rest to buy a little EV. Preferably a tiny Oldsmobile. ��
Iowa Dave

[iamunique127]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

53 years ago my fiancé and I attended the first earth day lecture at Iowa State University. Dr Paul Erlich was the speaker. His message was sobering and while his predictions didn’t all come true, it changed the way of thinking for many young people. His message could be summed up as “Do what you canto help the environment”. 45 days later I was planting trees for the US Forest service by the thousand in clear cut old growth forest. Returning to Iowa after spotting many forest fires from out lookout tower near the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness, we embarked on our careers of education and natural resources used for outdoor recreation.

It has been a sweet ride, watching former students and our children become engineers, doctors, teachers and parents. In that time I initiated memorial tree plantings for the cities where I worked, implemented recycling programs, kept abreast of energy saving utility practices and products and cooperated with hundreds of volunteers to help clean up trash that thousands of slobs left behind.

Personally we have purchased our last home and installed a metal roof unfazed by a 142 mph derecho, installed highly energy efficient windows and doors, installed geothermal heating and cooling, and three years ago a 7.6 kWh solar array in the rear of our property which provides us with 100% of our electrical needs. We had it sized at installation to be able to add enough panels to keep an EV charged when we get one. We will use the EV for the numerous short trips we take going into town.

I have lived the dream, I’ve done what I could and though I don’t have a second or third home I’m happy where I am and do not regret the time out my life that I’ve spent being good to the environment. Our farm ground still has the 35 foot wide fence rows filled with wildlife and song birds, our 11 acre wetland of black soil filled with grasses, sedges, and amphibious wildlife has NEVER seen a steel plow and has Federal recognition. Do what you can to make the world a better place for those who come after has been our mantra for over 53 years.
Have a great week, I hope I get a pie for Halloween from the big Granny Smith apples I picked just before the frost. They are better than candy.
Iowa Dave

Well said, Dave.

Nice foot and a quarter of apples, too.

[EscapingDan]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

Dream on, MacDuff:
https://www.businessinsider.com/auto...eid=31832528ac

BEV future is bleak.

Do you unconditionally believe every headlines that comes across your screen? Apparently so, but I’ll enlighten you as this is a subject I’ve closely studied for a decade …

As a Bloomberg reporter noted on a recent Autoline podcast with John McElroy, investors hate car companies because of high capex and low margins. He referenced this recent spate of articles like that FUD you threw out above - basically when something good happens it’s viewed as mediocre and when any issues occur it’s doom and gloom.

Digging a little deeper, all that’s happened is that GM has paused a ramp of the Silverado Ohio plant production by one year - Factory Zero meanwhile can produce 600k EV trucks annually. No matter though as they are battery constrained as they ramp a second plant next year while the first is at 100M annual cell production. Now Ford is seeing Lightning sales drop off - no surprise as it’s getting long in the tooth, has poor charging and a small battery. The Silverado is now the king of range so why buy a Lightning, especially when a new architecture version is coming shortly? Toyota is capitalizing on this as they hate EV’s - they were the biggest lobbyist against them in DC. The rest of the OEM’s are simply bemoaning how hard it is to switch power trains - which it is. All of them are breathing a sigh of relief as they have a breather to pull their acts together on EV’s. Which they all want to do (except Toyota) - because Tesla’s 30% margins make them all salivate.

Now let’s take a little look at the economy, hmm, record high interest rates - check. Consumers who have spent all pandemic excess savings according to the SF Fed - check. Auto loans defaulting at record rates (as in never this high before) - check. Inflation that went through the roof so everybody has gotten an effective pay cut - check. EV prices too high as OEM’s try to not make money but lose less money at this early date from early adopters - check. And on the brink of a Fed induced recession - check. So the rate of acceleration drops and … surprise?

So Mr McBean - suggest doing a little study before talking about something you know little about

[EscapingDan]

Otherwise, about climate and EV’s I say who cares? Certainly nobody does - even the few who say they do, it’s all green washing. But like it or not ICE is a dead man walking. OEM’s want EV’s for those 30% profit margins I mentioned. Regulation prone govts (California, EU and China) are mandating them. And for us customers it’s a great thing - they’re just better vehicles. If you’ve watched the towing videos it’s a dream. No need for a weight distribution hitch. Torque and power that ICE can only dream of. With a truck as heavy as the trailer no tail jerking the dog around. No braking issues - it’s all regen including the trailer brakes - recommendation is to use a gain of 3 which the truck will only hit in a hard stop. No transmission temps to worry about - no transmission. Or engine temps, the heat produced by the battery/motor is nothing compared to a ICE heat engine and is easily managed.

And finally when you roll into your campsite, if boondocking you’ll have 212 kWh of silent, clean power.

So screw climate - EV’s are more fun, better and lower stress towing than any ICE.

Disclaimer - my house is fully electric with 10k solar, I’ve been driving electric for a decade. I don’t eat meat, don’t fly, live lightly and bring a trash bag with me every time I go out in nature to pick up every bit of trash or popped balloon I find. But 99% won’t do this and it doesn’t bother me - I don’t push something that people won’t lift a finger for (climate) - but I do push EV’s because they are a better vehicle. They were here before ICE back in the 1800’s, along with steam cars, and now they get a chance is all - so don’t knock it if you haven’t tried it is my message!

[sunrisetrucker]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

Let the nattering nabobs of negativity have their say.

And it's a good thing they/we have their/our say, gotta bring you pie in the sky guys down to earth.

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by EscapingDan

Do you unconditionally believe every headlines that comes across your screen? Apparently so, but I’ll enlighten you as this is a subject I’ve closely studied for a decade …

So Mr McBean - suggest doing a little study before talking about something you know little about

Well, Dan, I have been following the 'Global Warming'/'Climate Change' and allied Alarmist movements since the '80s. I also follow the news about supply chains and industrial outsourcing (mostly to China), and about the total inadequacy of our power grid to support a complete switch to BEV transportation. I also know that (contrary to Iowa Dave, whose comments I always enjoy and admire) Paul Erhlich was (and is) a complete charlatan; just ask the late Julian Simon, who won the famous wager with Erhlich on the prices of raw materials; or just ask Norman Borlaug, father of the Green Revolution, who gave the lie to Erhlich's 'Population Bomb' predictions. The Climate Delusion, as I call it, is only the latest and most insidious of the Alarmist movements, promulgated by Globalists and Collectivists who yearn for, as Algore said, "a new Global Governance."

I don't have any problem with BEV cars, so long as it's the marketplace that's deciding whether to build them and consumers deciding whether to buy them. Maybe someone will invent a new kind of battery that will power trucks, and tanks, and airplanes as well as organic (carbohydrate) fuels will; maybe one that we can build here at home and won't require slave kids in Africa mining cobalt. Until then, without governments' misguided zeal pushing BEVs on us, I think organic-fuel vehicles are just fine.

I do appreciate your automotive expertise, which is greater than mine. Is the high-range Silverado in production yet? Last I read, they were depending on a solid-state battery, which was still in development stage.