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09-13-2021, 01:38 PM
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#81
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centex
I think we all also know that's not the point of Tom's posts / suggestions / comments. To go there is, respectfully and IMO, to create a straw-man.
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No straw man here. Just defeat of his argument:
"Here's why I keep bringing this issue up over and over. For years, Escape has been illegally installing S traps and, if any DMV in any of the 50 states inspects the trailer, the trailer could not be titled as it violates NFPA codes."
Why? I'm concerned NEW buyers... or just lookers would worry they wouldn't be able to get their trailers titled/licensed and registered. There's enough that think buying a trailer in Canada is a bad experience.
I 100% support what Tom is trying to do.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
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09-13-2021, 01:39 PM
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#82
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyG
You are assuming a level of diligence and energy on the part of DMV staff that I suspect does not exist.
The simple fact is, Escape is building these incorrectly. They don't care and I really bet no regulators care either. There's no stormtrooper force of RV compliance officers standing by awaiting your call.
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You're correct about most government agencies - rarely do they do their job. Again, that would be have to be a last ditch effort as there is more power in the purse. When buyers force the issue that the trailers they buy meet standards, that is when things will get changed.
This really is a easy fix for Escape - replace the S trap with a Hepvo valve. That meets code and adds a little more storage space.
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
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09-13-2021, 02:20 PM
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#83
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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The only thing that has ever stopped Escapes from crossing the Canada-U.S. border was ETI's failure to properly register as a manufacturer. That was an administrative issue that effectively stopped importation to the U.S.; physical failure to meet plumbing or electrical standards will never matter to anyone with authority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
I'm concerned NEW buyers... or just lookers would worry they wouldn't be able to get their trailers titled/licensed and registered.
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I share that concern.
If anyone would like to read the relevant CSA standard, compare that to actual RV construction, and note that some provinces require CSA compliance, they may realize that the situation is essentially the same in Canada, just with no border agency involved: if fully enforced, regulations would prevent the sale of new RVs, but that enforcement doesn't occur and likely never will. Scaring people off of buying Escapes so they buy other RVs with similar issues does not seem constructive to me.
The failings of the product should certainly be rectified. Threatening government administrative action is unlikely to be an effective way to achieve that.
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09-13-2021, 02:27 PM
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#84
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: East of Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2021 Escape 5.0 / 2022 F150 SuperCab
Posts: 2,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
No straw man here. Just defeat of his argument:
"Here's why I keep bringing this issue up over and over. For years, Escape has been illegally installing S traps and, if any DMV in any of the 50 states inspects the trailer, the trailer could not be titled as it violates NFPA codes."
Why? I'm concerned NEW buyers... or just lookers would worry they wouldn't be able to get their trailers titled/licensed and registered. There's enough that think buying a trailer in Canada is a bad experience.
I 100% support what Tom is trying to do.
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Fair enuf, Donna, your point is taken (as is Chotch's).
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09-13-2021, 02:39 PM
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#85
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Cowichan Valley, British Columbia
Trailer: 2020 - 21NE "JoMoE" (Just our Means of Escape)
Posts: 313
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I'm curious.
Do other glass egg builders here in Canada (and any other RV manufacturers up here), who export to the USA use S traps in their respective rigs?
If not, do they have P traps or Hepvo valves?
Anybody aware of this?
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09-13-2021, 02:49 PM
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#86
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Naugatuck, Connecticut
Trailer: 2017 50 TA, 2016 F150, 2.7 Ecoboost
Posts: 1,056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas
I always try to read previous posts before replying.
"I understand that for some owners of an Escape trailer, that a S trap installed for their sink is not an issue for them. The S trap is connected to the gray tank and sometimes but rarely does a smell issue come from there."
That the S trap is not an issue for you doesn't make it legal in Connecticut. Are you disagreeing that the S trap should not be installed in the Escapes?
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Don’t know if it’s “legal” in CT. Don’t care. Every point stated in the video may be valid in a residential situation but I can’t see any relevance to our trailers. Absolutely do not see any health risk using them in our trailers and the one in our 2017 5.0 seems to be working flawlessly. IMHO we have way too many laws on the books that are long on ink and short on common sense. 😎
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09-13-2021, 02:52 PM
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#87
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwinfrey
You would have to be connected to sewer, gray tank valve open, and one of the conditions exist where the trap would be empty. Sewer gas could come up through the sink drain. A lot of “ifs”. It would have been just as easy to do it right as do it wrong, but I’ll enjoy my new 5.0 and correct it if and when I notice a problem.
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Not true, grey tank odor is a thing if it’s not been maintained well, I am living proof I just got it under control.
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09-13-2021, 02:54 PM
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#88
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas
You're correct about most government agencies - rarely do they do their job. Again, that would be have to be a last ditch effort as there is more power in the purse. When buyers force the issue that the trailers they buy meet standards, that is when things will get changed.
This really is a easy fix for Escape - replace the S trap with a Hepvo valve. That meets code and adds a little more storage space.
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Hmm I worked for the National Park Service for 30 years and I take issue with that blanket statement.
Most of the issues we had were contractors not doing their job and foolish visitors. Most of my colleagues were hard working and focused on our mission.
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09-13-2021, 02:54 PM
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#89
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ops
Do other glass egg builders here in Canada (and any other RV manufacturers up here), who export to the USA use S traps in their respective rigs?
If not, do they have P traps or Hepvo valves?
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Good question.
In the 'glass egg category, the competition is down to Bigfoot and Team Trillium (maker of the Outback, a Trillium 1300 clone), and I'm not sure that Team Trillium exports. I don't recall the plumbing traps in either of them. There are not many RVs built in Canada now, of any type.
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09-13-2021, 03:04 PM
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#90
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Central valley, California
Trailer: 2021 Escape 5.0
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwave
Not true, grey tank odor is a thing if it’s not been maintained well, I am living proof I just got it under control.
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No doubt. The context of my comment was not about gray tank odor but real septic gases coming up from the sewer or septic.
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09-13-2021, 03:23 PM
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#91
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwinfrey
No doubt. The context of my comment was not about gray tank odor but real septic gases coming up from the sewer or septic.
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This should mot happen if you keep you valves shut unless you are emptying the tank.......
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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09-13-2021, 03:31 PM
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#92
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
This should mot happen if you keep you valves shut unless you are emptying the tank.......
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Actually we had grey tank odor not hooked up. It’s not uncommon as bacteria develops from food particles , grease etc. I tried a couple of friendly bacteria growing treatments that didn’t work well. I did finally use a diluted bleach , had a tank with about a 1/4full and drove to the next campground and used a tank flush attachment to fill and drain a few times, some crud came out, mostly particles. That seems to have done it. However I’m going to install the hepvos any way as it seems cheap to alleviate the p-trap problems . Thanks. This problem only developed this year after 4 years of no issues.
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09-13-2021, 03:55 PM
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#93
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwave
Actually we had grey tank odor not hooked up. It’s not uncommon as bacteria develops from food particles , grease etc. I tried a couple of friendly bacteria growing treatments that didn’t work well. I did finally use a diluted bleach , had a tank with about a 1/4full and drove to the next campground and used a tank flush attachment to fill and drain a few times, some crud came out, mostly particles. That seems to have done it. However I’m going to install the hepvos any way as it seems cheap to alleviate the p-trap problems . Thanks. This problem only developed this year after 4 years of no issues.
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I dump some black water treatment stuff down the kitchen sink, every once in a while. Like once every 3rd or 4th camping trip. I'm not about to stick my nose down by the drain to see how effective it is, but I don't smell anything foul in the trailer either. YMMV
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
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09-14-2021, 12:32 PM
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#94
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Trailer: 2021 21NE
Posts: 516
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We picked up our 2021 21NE yesterday. No more S-trap under the kitchen sink. Just thought I would share.
FWIW -As I have said in other posts, Karl does read this Forum, he just doesn't respond/reply. Maybe he saw the S-trap issue and fixed it?
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09-14-2021, 12:40 PM
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#95
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytony1985
FWIW -As I have said in other posts, Karl does read this Forum, he just doesn't respond/reply. Maybe he saw the S-trap issue and fixed it?
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He's not logging into the EscapeForum, maybe he's using some covert screen name?
Karl @ Escape:Last Activity: 05-21-2021 05:48 PM
Nearly four months ago.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
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09-14-2021, 12:54 PM
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#96
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: East of Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2021 Escape 5.0 / 2022 F150 SuperCab
Posts: 2,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytony1985
We picked up our 2021 21NE yesterday. No more S-trap under the kitchen sink. Just thought I would share.
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Do you have an "S" trap in the lower cabinet as shown in this post, or do you have some other trap arrangement? Just curious.
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09-14-2021, 01:37 PM
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#97
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Cowichan Valley, British Columbia
Trailer: 2020 - 21NE "JoMoE" (Just our Means of Escape)
Posts: 313
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No S or P trap in our 2020 21NE which was completed in May 2020.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/a...1&d=1631644621
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09-14-2021, 01:41 PM
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#98
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: DFW, Texas
Trailer: 2018 21 Sept 7 2018
Posts: 1,073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ops
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Check in in cabinet underneath, that is where our strap is .
David
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09-14-2021, 01:47 PM
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#99
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Trailer: 2021 21NE
Posts: 516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ops
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Mine looks like this one.
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09-14-2021, 01:52 PM
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#100
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Cowichan Valley, British Columbia
Trailer: 2020 - 21NE "JoMoE" (Just our Means of Escape)
Posts: 313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldtimer
Check in in cabinet underneath, that is where our strap is .
David
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I'm reluctant to get on my knees, takes too long to get up...but I checked as you suggested. And the evidence is...
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