Refrigerator AC not working

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by yeungfeng

Plus for those buying a used Escape it might be helpful to know that there is a lag time from turning on the switch for power and power actually being available. About 3 minutes.

Yup 2 minutes 16 secs. This is really only for air conditioner protection. If you don’t have A/C or your A/C has built-in time delay on restart then you can reduce the EMS delay to 15 secs. Unfortunately this requires a jumper that Escape likely pulled and discarded. You would need to contact Progressive Industries to see if you can get another jumper.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by yeungfeng

I've got a 12/3 50' power cord. Is it possible that it's just a little under rated?

I'm guessing here, but checking the outlets would require bypassing the EMS, is this a good idea?

It depends on the amp draw for your trailer. Low current circuits such as lighting, Maxxfan, etc are fine. High current loads such as the electric heater, A/C, or fridge would cause a high voltage drop and may cause your EMS to trip.

Turning off the EMS is not a good idea for the A/C as those low voltages being supplied to compressor motor circuits could damage them.

The fridge and hot water heater, being resistive loads, are fine with lower voltage up to a point. When the voltage decreases to a resistive load, the amps increase . Too high an amp load, well...

I would suggest replacing the 12ga extension cord with a 10ga RV extension cord -
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Extensi...2422100&sr=8-5 and attach it to your Escape power cord to reach the 50' to the garage.

If you are using a 15 amp outlet, then use the shortest 30amp to 15amp adapter available.
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Dogbone...s%2C110&sr=8-5

Of course, getting a 30 amp RV outlet added to the garage would be a good idea.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

It depends on the amp draw for your trailer. Low current circuits such as lighting, Maxxfan, etc are fine. High current loads such as the electric heater, A/C, or fridge would cause a high voltage drop and may cause your EMS to trip.

Turning off the EMS is not a good idea for the A/C as those low voltages being supplied to compressor motor circuits could damage them.

The fridge and hot water heater, being resistive loads, are fine with lower voltage up to a point. When the voltage decreases to a resistive load, the amps increase . Too high an amp load, well...

I would suggest replacing the 12ga extension cord with a 10ga RV extension cord -
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Extensi...2422100&sr=8-5 and attach it to your Escape power cord to reach the 50' to the garage.

If you are using a 15 amp outlet, then use the shortest 30amp to 15amp adapter available.
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Dogbone...s%2C110&sr=8-5

Of course, getting a 30 amp RV outlet added to the garage would be a good idea.

Actually, it is an inductive load such as a motor when lower voltage often causes higher current. For a resistive load, lowering the voltage also lowers the current. The resistance stays the same, so Ohm's law rules: I = E/R. If R stays the same, lower E results in lower I...

As to the E2 error, check the ground pins at the receptacle, adapter & extension cord. Somewhere you have a poor connection, which will cause the EMS to throw an error code. The "P" is a previous error, ie the last time the EMS had power applied, The "E" error is current. As Dave (rubicon327) noted, the size & length of the cord has no effect on the EMS throwing an E2 code. A open ground is what causes the error.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Actually, it is an inductive load such as a motor when lower voltage often causes higher current. For a resistive load, lowering the voltage also lowers the current. The resistance stays the same, so Ohm's law rules: I = E/R. If R stays the same, lower E results in lower I...

And Jon is absolutely correct. That's the second time I have done that and I know better. I need to think before I type!

[yeungfeng]

I went and purchased a 10/3 50' and tried it out no difference. I'm guessing that the ground must be within the trailer. One thing that surprised me was, having the trailer plugged in, but the power switch was off, I got zapped changing the outlet for the refrigerator. Funny I thought the power was off. When I finished with replacing the outlet. Plugged the trailer back to shore, there were no error messages. I checked the refrigerator fuse, near the outlet I replaced, and it was fine.

Last month we took the trailer out and we didn't have any problems. Now with the departure date looming, I'm flummoxed.

One question I have is if I take off on this trip, can I restore the Batteries and just live off the DC without causing further problems?

[John in Santa Cruz]

you can't run an absorption fridge on DC off batteries, they draw a LOT and on DC they cool half as effectively as propane or AC.

It sounds like you are at home, running the trailer off an extension cord to your house? As a test, I would switch the EMS off, and see if the fridge works. If it does, and the EMS is showing E2 when its on, thats an indication that the trailer has no ground. It could be the outlet you're extension cord is plugged into.

If the EMS is NOT showing an error E2, and the /rest/ of your trailer has AC power (check the air conditioner, plug something into a trailer interior outlet, the microwave, etc), flip the fridge breaker OFF, then back ON again. maybe two this twice. now check the fridge.

If its still no power at the fridge, but power everywhere else, I'd remove the cover from the electrical panel. Take a digital multimeter, and put it in AC Volts. look at the refrigerator circuit breaker (I think its the 2nd one from the top?), and note there's an exposed screw with a black wire coming off it, thats the power to the fridge... Inside the AC side of the power center, there's an aluminum ground bar with a bunch of white and/or bare wires. carefully touch one volt meter probe to this bus bar without touching anything else, and touch the other probe to the screw on that refrigerator breaker, you should see 120VAC (being very careful not to touch anything metal includin gthe probe ends with your fingers!). if you don't see 120VAC, the problem is in the breaker. if you do see 120VAC, then the problem is at the other end, the fridge outlet, or the wire in between them.

[Phlip]

This sounds all too familiar to me, the error code, everything else works, refrigerator panel shows it works in DC or propane mode, exactly what I experienced. Being that you have replaced a few receptacles, you might want to double check all neutral, hot & ground wires are properly connected, especially since you got zapped.

Here is a great link on the subject;

https://homeinspectioninsider.com/reverse-polarity/

[yeungfeng]

Hi John! Yea I've notice that the refrigerator sucks the batteries very quickly. I knew that DC was not the way to run the refrigerator. I haven't use propane for the refrigerator as I've always had AC so far.

I decided to try turning off the EMS as you suggested. But first (for those in the future) I watched this from Progressive Industries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71CgTN1LX10&t=3s

a good primer in what the EMS does. Then I watched the echo chamber explanation of the system from Escape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2NnfROATg4

It was one of the reasons I was hesitant to turn off the EMS. Who wants to fry components.

When I was younger, so much younger than today I worked for a contractor and learned to do some electrical. I could help wire a house. Mixing AC/DC (no pun intended) and a EMS made it all seem complicated. It is a complex setup. But the key here was the EMS is saying no go. DC is fine. Shore power comes n the trailer and goes to the EMS first. It seems as though it only reads the AC (please correct me if I'm wrong anyone) so the error code had to be in the shore power. Having been around computers for the last 35 yrs and with the pace of integration of them, the EMS might read everything. But I don't think so.

I may give Progressive Industries a call tomorrow to further my understanding.

John thanks for the steps, that really help me clarify the problem. Now I'll go and see if the refrigerator is still working.

[yeungfeng]

No it wasn't. So I turned off all the power, and unplugged. Then I flipped the switch, plugged into shore, turned the EMS off, turned the refrigerator on. E 0 PE2 It did something repeatable. So I turned off the refrigerator and saw the Maxfan was drawing, or something was, 4amps. I'll leave it for a while and then see if it's still E 0.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by yeungfeng

It seems as though it only reads the AC (please correct me if I'm wrong anyone) so the error code had to be in the shore power. Having been around computers for the last 35 yrs and with the pace of integration of them, the EMS might read everything. But I don't think so.

I may give Progressive Industries a call tomorrow to further my understanding.

The EMS only analyzes incoming 120V AC power. It doesn’t detect downstream conditions either. There is likely an issue somewhere between your home power supply and the EMS unit. Or the EMS itself could be faulty. I think a call to Progressive Industries is a great idea. Their technical support should be able to walk you through some troubleshooting.

[Rockhead]

Progressive has excellent tech support. When you call them be in your escape as they will ask you to do several things to help in diagnosing the ems to determine if it is faulty. If it is they will send you a new one free of charge. Ours took a electrical hit for a severe lightning storm and we received a new o e in 2 days. Great company to work with as they support what they sale and are here in the USA.

[yeungfeng]

In the most basic of RV spots to stop for the night I plugged in with my new 30/15amp adapter that Progressive Industries suggested was the problem. It was a happy time the AC electric was working all night and the refrigerator worked and everyone was happy.

Tonight in a 3yr old RV park I plugged into the outlet with the expectation that everything would work just fine. Boy was I wrong. EMS says E2 again. I plugged into the neighboring outlet and nada.

So I am now thinking that the only thing left is the Escape power cord. That seems unlikely as I never pull it all the way out. But who knows. I am thinking I could test the continuity of the ground wire on the cable. Could I test it by connecting one lead to the neutral of the cable and then to one of the ground on outlet inside the trailer?

If I push harder will the door open?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by yeungfeng

...
So I am now thinking that the only thing left is the Escape power cord. That seems unlikely as I never pull it all the way out. But who knows. I am thinking I could test the continuity of the ground wire on the cable. Could I test it by connecting one lead to the neutral of the cable and then to one of the ground on outlet inside the trailer?

if you have a DVM, you can test the cord... unplug it from from everything, put the meter in OHMS or continuity beeper mode, then verify that ground on one end is only connected to ground on the other end, neutral on one is only connected to neutral on the other, and live on one is only connected to live on the other.


the trailer twist lock side is a NEMA L5-30R, on this drawing, G is ground, W is neutral, and the unlabeled pin is live...

on the TT-30P plug end, if the pins are facing you,. and the round ground pin is on top, the flat blade on your left is the white/neutral, and the flat blade on your right is the black/live. (note my second drawing shows the TT30*R*, which is the receptacle, on the plug, the W and unlabeled black pins are swapped)

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if you have a DVM, you can test the cord... unplug it from from everything, put the meter in OHMS or continuity beeper mode, then verify that ground on one end is only connected to ground on the other end, neutral on one is only connected to neutral on the other, and live on one is only connected to live on the other.


the trailer twist lock side is a NEMA L5-30R, on this drawing, G is ground, W is neutral, and the unlabeled pin is live...

on the TT-30P plug end, if the pins are facing you,. and the round ground pin is on top, the flat blade on your left is the white/neutral, and the flat blade on your right is the black/live. (note my second drawing shows the TT30*R*, which is the receptacle, on the plug, the W and unlabeled black pins are swapped)

Based on the earlier statement that the cord has never been pulled all the way out I suspect they do not have the detachable power cord.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Based on the earlier statement that the cord has never been pulled all the way out I suspect they do not have the detachable power cord.

ah, didn't realize that was an option on an Escape... I hated the pullout cord on our Casita. but thinking again, the 2014 we bought 2nd hand a few years ago has most every option, or at least a lot of them.

[ColoradoSwany]

Just discovered this thread and the statement about using the fridge on propane at altitudes above 6k’. We too, have a 2017 E19. We have the standard fridge (I think 5 cubic feet?). We live in Colorado and have spent MANY days above 6k’ using propane for the fridge. For example, we camp for at least five nights every year above Leadville, CO, which is above 10,000 feet elevation, and usually at least five nights above Ouray, CO at about 8,000’. Just went to a fiberglass rv rally last month in Mogote CO which, I think was about 8,000 feet elevation. None of these campsites had hookups. Never had a problem. Maybe I should read my manual?

[John in Santa Cruz]

We had the RMD8555 big fridge / freezer in our '16 E21, and I don't remember anything about higher elevations, and we used it on propane most of the time, unless we had 120VAC handy. I'm pretty sure we camped at some fairly high elevations, and I don't recall any issues. But the controller board died on it, and I ended up replacing it with a Norcold N2175 dc compressor fridge, and am more than happy, even though its about 1 cubic foot smaller inside. its an exact fit outside, and its keeping everything icy cold even in the 105F weather we've been having this week (its setup outside on the driveway at home, running entirely on solar and lithium). the beer is frosty, the ice is rock solid cold and dry. my fridge monitor says the fridge has stayed 0F-11F during this heat spell, and the fridge has stayed 36F-40F, the fridge is set to 3 (middle) and the freezer to 5 (max). Both are moderately full of what was left after our trip a couple weeks ago, and I use it as a beer/cider fridge.

[yeungfeng]

John, I'll give that try tomorrow. I got a call in to Dustin at Escape, I'll call Progressive Industries too. I got an interesting new symptom, I decided that since I'm just barely over he limit in elevation I'd run the refrigerator on LP. It runs LP for 3-4 hours then the next thing it's E 0 and the refrigerator is running AC. Less than a hour later it's bumped back to LP.

I'd love to hear about your solar array. It makes sense to not be limited by a cord.

[John in Santa Cruz]

IIRC, mine was default to 120VAC if you have 120VAC, otherwise use propane.

[yeungfeng]

Long drive today. Co-pilot missed our turn, we could take an alter route to make up for the late discovery of this fact. An adventure. Except that the road was so bad you keep it at 30. That took up more time. But it was a view into a world I'd not seen. Thus some things remain unfulfilled. No testing, Dustin didn't call, but there is a new symptom to add to the mix.

The EMS goes E 2 no AC for refrigerator, but if the gas is on, when you turn the power back with the gas on, it goes E 0. Then some time later poof back to E 2 and gas refrigerator and some time later poof back to E 0.

Could it be gremlins?

We will be stopping for a few days, maybe I can find out more. Since I started this post it has cycled E0, E2, E0.