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Old 07-23-2020, 11:36 AM   #41
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On my 17b the fresh water and grey water outlets are on the side of the tank, not the bottom and thus it is not possible to drain all the water out of those tanks. Your trailer may be similar so you cannot use the rated tank capacity as the tank is never dry, unless perhaps after the trapped water evaporates over time while not being used. You can lean the trailer when draining to get more water out.

Years ago I wanted to solve a problem with cooties growing in my un-coated, externally mounted fresh water tank and out of curiosity I wanted to find out how much water was trapped in the fresh water tank. I learned my 20 gallon fresh water tank has a usable capacity of approximately 18.1 gallons.

After pumping the tank until almost no water flowed and the faucet was sputtering, I drained the fresh water tank via the drain cock. I didn’t measure the amount of water drained with the drain cock as I normally remove the drain cock when emptying the tank in order to remove as much water as possible.

I then removed the drain cock and drained approximately 77 ounces of trapped water into a container. This is approximately 2.4 US quarts or 2.3 liters or 0.6 US gallons. I measured the water using a measuring cup.

I then used a vacuum attachment I made and dried the tank. I removed an additional 162 ounces of trapped water that was below the level of the threaded fitting that held the drain cock. This is approximately 5.1 quarts or 4.8 liters or 1.3 gallons.

Altogether I removed approximately 239 ounces or 7.5 quarts or 7.1 liters of trapped water. This is approximately 1.9 gallons or almost 10% of the rated capacity of the tank.

I remove the non-usable, 1.9 gallons of water left in my fresh water tank every fall and every few months so the tank is bone dry while not being used for extended periods. I no longer have a cootie problem.

That my 20 gallon tank only has 18.1 gallons of usable water doesn’t bother me and ETI was honest when they published the capacity, it is just not the capacity that is available for actual day to day use.
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:48 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
It's both. ETI is obviously saving tons of money on the plastic used to make smaller tanks, and pocketing it.
They're not saving any money on plastic because the the outsides of the tanks are the correct size for the advertised volume.

The tanks are a reverse T.A.R.D.I.S. they are smaller on the inside.
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Old 07-23-2020, 11:51 AM   #43
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On my 2018 17B I found that grey (26 gal) is actually 23, black (19) is actually 15 and fresh (20) is about 21.


My take is the reduced capacities may be due to the physical location of the tanks (and/or piping) that may leave an air pocket at the top when "full".


BTW my black tank level indicator never shows full, shows 2/3 only when level is near max.
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:41 PM   #44
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Agreed. One way we manage our grey water is by dumping our used dishwasher down the toilet. Less water going into the grey tank & soapy water in the black tank to keep it “clean”.
We do that too ! Pat
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Old 07-23-2020, 04:12 PM   #45
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tank size followup

Our gray tank has 20.5 gallons usable and is advertised as 26 gallons. That's 5.5 gallons difference, over 20%.

Our black tank has 13 gallons usable and is advertised as as 19 gallons. That's 6 gallons difference, over 30%.

The two of us use about 5 gallons of water per day (cooking/cleanup and military shower). So it means we can go four days and not five.

My measured capacities agree with the original poster, so I don't think it's a fluke. Escape may well use a 26-gallon gray and 19-gallon black, but if the plumbing doesn't allow the full tank size to be used and it were my company, I would only advertise the usable capacities.

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Old 07-23-2020, 10:02 PM   #46
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Our gray tank has 20.5 gallons usable and is advertised as 26 gallons. That's 5.5 gallons difference, over 20%.

Our black tank has 13 gallons usable and is advertised as as 19 gallons. That's 6 gallons difference, over 30%.

The two of us use about 5 gallons of water per day (cooking/cleanup and military shower). So it means we can go four days and not five.

My measured capacities agree with the original poster, so I don't think it's a fluke. Escape may well use a 26-gallon gray and 19-gallon black, but if the plumbing doesn't allow the full tank size to be used and it were my company, I would only advertise the usable capacities.

Bill R
Thankyou for doing this . Need to do a check on our trailer . I was wondering about the tanks but never checked as you did . The thing that gets me is the grey tank fills really fast . We also try to be very frugal with our water and can bring additional fresh but doesn’t seem to last .The black tank has never given us a problem but we are careful with using paper . For two we can go 10 days . Pardon me the pee paper goes in our little trash can that really helps . Previously we had a 9 1/2 camper and never had any issues of course we had a bigger fresh tank . The grey was only 14 gal but lasted longer then our trailer . Our black was only 16 but never a issue . We have a older 19 with starting out smaller tanks . Our fresh is supposed to be 20 gal , our grey is supposed to be 26, our Black is supposed to be 19 .so now I need to know especially the grey which fills really fast . In our camper we had a double sink and same use for shower etc. I took a picture of our camper brochure with tank sizes . Pat
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:52 AM   #47
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2014 measured tank capacities

FWIW, our 2014 Escape 19 advertised and measured water tank sizes were:

advertised measured
20gal 19.5gal fresh
26gal 23.0gal gray
19gal 13.5gal black

The plumbing and usable capacities changed sometime between 2014 and 2018. Our 2014 had 2 roof vents and a straight gray pipe. Our 2018 has 1 roof vent and an elbow in the gray pipe near the dump valve.

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Old 07-26-2020, 05:55 PM   #48
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Came home yesterday from camping, no dump station where we camped, found one after about ten miles and emptied the tanks, making sure to give plenty of time to drain the gray as it always takes a while. After reading this thread I decided to see if my gray tank is actually empty, with a bucket under the drain plug I opened the gray valve and the water came gushing out, in total about five gallon, go figure.
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Old 07-29-2020, 10:43 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by arniesea View Post
Agreed. One way we manage our grey water is by dumping our used dishwasher down the toilet. Less water going into the grey tank & soapy water in the black tank to keep it “clean”.
Do people ever use a gallon or two of grey water to put out their camp fires at the end of the night? I know one can buy an aftermarket cap for their grey tanks that can attach a short segment of garden hose to fill a small bucket to use for this purpose.
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:24 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by duckofportland View Post
Do people ever use a gallon or two of grey water to put out their camp fires at the end of the night? I know one can buy an aftermarket cap for their grey tanks that can attach a short segment of garden hose to fill a small bucket to use for this purpose.
We wash dishes in tubs and dump them in a bucket and take that to the grey water sink / dump. Yes, we've used some of that water to extinguish a fire.
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:53 AM   #51
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A More Important Measurement...

This is all interesting but it occurs to me that it doesn't really matter how many gallons my tanks hold as I have no control of that. My wife and I know that in our E19 that we can dry camp for 4 days until we need to dump and usually it is our gray tank that get's full first. During those 4 days we both take "Navy" showers mostly but the 4 days includes one real shower for both of us. The 4 days between dumps seems to work fine and it gives us a standard to plan long trips. My wife is retiring next year and using the 4 day model we just finished planning a 3 month, or so, cross country trip next year to celebrate retirement.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:20 PM   #52
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Back in 2017 I did the same thing and asked


https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ent-11099.html


Have 2016 Classic 19. First test I got


black stated 19gal, got 14.5
gray stated 26, got 19


I'd emailed Reace to ask. He'd said those were the manufacturer stated capacities. Had more time so repeated test after draining with door side raised and raising and lowering the front. That got the gray to 21.5 but I only got 13 on the black so might have missed recording some.


On page 3 of my thread I posted a reply I got from asking Reace. He was going to try filling a dry tank and see. I never got another reply from him though emailed a couple more times.


My guesses are the manufacturers numbers are off a bit. Or the mounting distorts the tanks some? (I have foam underside so can't see anything about that)


I used a bucket with a 1gal mark, checked with a measuring cup to make sure was a true 1gal. Poured down the toilet and the sink, trailer leveled like would use in camp. Till coming out shower drain, and at toilet flap. I was trying to calibrate what the tank indicators were telling me.



At least I know and can be careful in usage.


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Old 07-29-2020, 01:21 PM   #53
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Thank you Mark B1 --- for measuring this and determining it is as stated. I am quite confident that Escape did not try to pull one off on us as they wouldn't do that (number 1) and if they were of that character - they would have been caught long ago.
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:41 PM   #54
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So back to my original theory. Does the tanks actually empty out when drained?

The first trip we noticed something was awry. Our previous camper not an Escape had a supposedly smaller tank than our new 19 escape however we were filling the gray tank in the Escape in 1 to 2 shower where we were easily getting 3 showers in the other. Same with black. We could easily get a week off of black where we are now getting 3-4 days. I had planned to do exactly what you have done to see what each would hold so thank you for saving me the time. Now if you look under the 19 at the gray tank you will see the drain port is nowhere near the bottom of the tank. Also the tank has a downward swag in the center. I am think it is holding 6 to 8 gallons. I cant see the black tank so I have no idea where the drain port is mounted or if it also has a swag.
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:17 PM   #55
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That would explain things. The manufactured capacity is what Escape lists. But once installed if the center sags and the outlet isn't near the bottom it can't be fully drained so the effective usable volume is less.
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:32 PM   #56
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Grey Water

Quote:
Originally Posted by duckofportland View Post
Do people ever use a gallon or two of grey water to put out their camp fires at the end of the night? I know one can buy an aftermarket cap for their grey tanks that can attach a short segment of garden hose to fill a small bucket to use for this purpose.
I suppose that is occasionally done but is probably
1: Frowned upon for the possibility of food scraps and odors attracts animals etc.
2. Flat out against the rules
3. Run off might not be contained in the fire ring.
That said I have been in campgrounds in Canadian Provincial parks that allowed and in some cases encouraged watering nearby trees and shrubs with grey water
And I’ve been in some parks (Salt Fork State park in Ohio) with grey water dumps located throughout the campground where one could decant some grey water with the short garden hose and small cap setup into a bucket and drain off the grey tank to increase possible length of stay, especially if you used the campground restrooms when convenient to save space in the black tank.
In addition I’m sure some folks carry a bucket or two of grey to restrooms and flush them in the toilets though I’ve not seen it.
Some camp hosts are helpful, some are not. I was in a forest service campground when I asked a host if I could use the only fresh water spigot in the campground to get water. She said “I suppose you could but how are you going to get it in your camper, you would have to have a funnel.”
That was permission enough so I said “as a matter of fact I do have a funnel and proceeded to top off my fresh water tank.
A couple days later in the Bighorns we stayed in a Forest service Campground where the water system was not yet de-winterized. We were only staying one night and I had about ten gallons fresh water on plus the hot water heater full. The camp host walked up the hill ( 8,000 ft elevation) and asked me if I needed a couple buckets of water as she had a 250 gallon tank alongside her camper and then she offered to split some wood for me for a fire if I wanted it because all the downed wood around was wet from melting snow. I declined both offers but wrote the district supervisor a glowing report of my treatment. “Funnel lady” got no report at all.
But that’s just me.
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:51 PM   #57
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Some camp hosts are helpful, some are not. I was in a forest service campground when I asked a host if I could use the only fresh water spigot in the campground to get water. She said “I suppose you could but how are you going to get it in your camper, you would have to have a funnel.”
I wouldn't have even asked, not do I. What I do with water I put in a jug isn't the campground hosts business. Most Forest Service Campgrounds only have a single water source. The host site is often by it for their convenience. It doesn't make it their water supply.
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:53 PM   #58
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Many campgrounds in Oregon have spots to dump grey water. And yes, we have carried grey water to bathrooms in some circumstances. And if the grey water is very environmental - in the right situation (rare) - we will put some on bushes and scatter. Of course no chemicals or food in water. Sometimes when we are home we carry grey water into our own toilet! The problem is that pesky black water which has to wait for a dump. Why aren't there more dumps like in Washington State at the rest areas?
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Old 07-29-2020, 05:39 PM   #59
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You asked if people ever put out fires with grey water. In my post, my first sentence noted that I felt it was done on occasion. That answered your question. I went on to attempt to educate the less experienced campers on what I have experienced in over 50 years of camping. Your meticulous treatment of cookware, the use of disposable plates etc is sincerely appreciated by campground managers, and the next guy to camp at the site you’ve vacated. However I can assure you that your behavior is the exception rather than SOP by millions of campers each year.
Additional comments I made about anecdotal experiences throughout the United States and Canada were related as information, food for thought and education of common camping techniques which are environmentally accepted in various areas of North America. When you ask a question and I respond, you get the entire benefit of my knowledge not just a cursory synopsis. It’s who I am and what I do.
Have a great day
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:13 PM   #60
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We measured our gray capacity right when we got trailer

We did this measurement back in May, twice (during our shakedown trip) and lifted waaaay up on right, so as to empty our tanks as much as possible. We were able to fill just under 21 gallons. We asked Dustin about it, and he was going to get back to us about that. Then we went camping and haven't asked him again yet. Measured again yesterday, still 21 gallons max can go in there. Interesting to come onto forum this morning and read this thread. We have foam under our trailer so can't measure the outside dimensions, or view where the drain is. Interesting though that the previous generation escapes had about a 20 gal capacity, right? Or at least advertised as such. We are very good about water use and 7 - 8 gallons is a lot of boondocking days!
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