Should “bullies” be allowed on the Forum

[C&G in FL]

My thread title is a bit misleading, but I post this because I have seen the term “bully” used rather liberally on the Escape Forum in recent month. It is my belief that relatively little bullying actually occurs here, and when it does, the Site Team addresses it. Hats off to these volunteers.

My statement above is based on my perception of what a bully is, as well as some of the “bully accusations” I have seen. IMHO, I have perceived members accusing others of being bullies simply because they feel slighted because other members openly post that they have differing opinions. Bully is an emotionally charged word. Everyone here is entitled to post their opinion on an issue, and everyone is entitled to post a counter opinion, whether or not the OP likes it. Even if stated in a rude manner which occasionally occurs, stating an opposing opinion IS NOT BULLYING! Bullying involves a personal attack (e.g., “You are an idiot.”) or a threat (e.g., “you had better hope we never meet in person.”). One can REQUEST that responses to a post only come from a certain group of people, but cannot RESTRICT others not within that group from responding.
I have posted in the past that when sitting around a campfire having a discussion, differing opinions can be immediately discussed, clarified, and agreed upon. Separated by keyboards and hundreds or thousands of miles of communication wires, immediate resolution of “disagreements” is not possible.
People get frustrated and upset when they are unhappy with a given situation. Many get defensive when someone contradicts them. But my point is that I believe true bullying on the Forum is rare. I see what is happening is more a lack of civility and/or kindness.
Can we stop calling others bullies and accept the fact that people don’t always agree with us. Not every opposing opinion is stated to start a dispute.

And yes, I fully expect posts from people who disagree. They won’t offend me.

[UncleTim]

I think the perception of bullying is as important as what is said.

I read a post a few months ago in which a few ladies expressed hesitancy to post for fear for being made fun of. A few posts seemed to agree with that sentiment.

When that happens it denies all of us the opportunity to hear their thoughts and comments. It denies them the chance to find the community they seek just as it does us.

Bullies never see themselves as such. But you can tell when you hear them because their words cause people to separate, instead of bringing people together. There are no standards for this and everyone has been brought up differently.

I just think we should treat each other as kindly as possible, always. It's what I try to do. I still struggle at times.

[noblets]

There is a fine line between "frank", "blunt", and "bullying".

[Sean Murry]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

My thread title is a bit misleading, but I post this because I have seen the term “bully” used rather liberally on the Escape Forum in recent month. It is my belief that relatively little bullying actually occurs here, and when it does, the Site Team addresses it. Hats off to these volunteers.

My statement above is based on my perception of what a bully is, as well as some of the “bully accusations” I have seen. IMHO, I have perceived members accusing others of being bullies simply because they feel slighted because other members openly post that they have differing opinions. Bully is an emotionally charged word. Everyone here is entitled to post their opinion on an issue, and everyone is entitled to post a counter opinion, whether or not the OP likes it. Even if stated in a rude manner which occasionally occurs, stating an opposing opinion IS NOT BULLYING! Bullying involves a personal attack (e.g., “You are an idiot.”) or a threat (e.g., “you had better hope we never meet in person.”). One can REQUEST that responses to a post only come from a certain group of people, but cannot RESTRICT others not within that group from responding.
I have posted in the past that when sitting around a campfire having a discussion, differing opinions can be immediately discussed, clarified, and agreed upon. Separated by keyboards and hundreds or thousands of miles of communication wires, immediate resolution of “disagreements” is not possible.
People get frustrated and upset when they are unhappy with a given situation. Many get defensive when someone contradicts them. But my point is that I believe true bullying on the Forum is rare. I see what is happening is more a lack of civility and/or kindness.
Can we stop calling others bullies and accept the fact that people don’t always agree with us. Not every opposing opinion is stated to start a dispute.

And yes, I fully expect posts from people who disagree. They won’t offend me.

I completely agree with you. When responding or making comments one should always re-read your response before sending and try and see if someone might read it in a way that was not intended. Often times people read a response that is interpreted in a way the original person never intended. We once had a guy who worked for us who always had the best intentions, but his way of putting things down in typed form often led people to view his comments differently than what he intended. This is a problem with type versus the spoken word.

[RangerMan]

You have intent, then you have impact. I really, really , really dislike having to be sooooo careful with everything I say. That's just the way it is now.

Should someone in the public eye have to answer for something he/she said 20 yrs ago as they are questioned by a 'journalist'? I don't know the answer to that and more to the point, I don't care.

EDIT: A thought! When I attended the Army War College an instructor in communicating stated that In a written correspondence, the reader maybe 'got' 70% of what the writer intended to impart.

Never have made up my mind about that.

[WillyB]

There are many, many, many exceptionally polite members of this forum. Those, without meeting in person, who would be great to have as your next door neighbor.

Then there are the others.

[Janet H]

The forum is intended to be a friendly exchange of info and I have seen some instances where we fail to meet the mark. The forum has extensive rules and the site team is available to intervene when there is an issue so that members don't have to take matters into their own hands. Rude and trolly posts drive away reasonable members who are often new and need the most help. Please report these posts when you see them.

Here's a link to the forum rules: https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/m...ork&page=rules

They're long but the short version is:

• Be nice (or be silent)
• Be helpful
• Don't spam
• No trolling.
• Avoid discussions about politics, weaponry and religion
• Don't lob random comments and opinions into classifieds threads - they are for sellers and buyers.

This is our definition of trolling: Trolling on this board includes posting controversial and often irrelevant or off-topic messages with the intention of (or anticipated result of) baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal, harmonious on-topic discussion, especially when a pattern of such posting is apparent.

[kstock11]

One way of “avoiding” people whose posts you don’t want to read, is to put a block on their posts being visible to you. Simple and effective!

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by kstock11

One way of “avoiding” people whose posts you don’t want to read, is to put a block on their posts being visible to you. Simple and effective!

The problem with that is that you get a notification that they have posted. You just can't read it. Piques curiosity.

[edlynnrich]

Originally Posted by noblets

There is a fine line between "frank", "blunt", and "bullying".

Especially with the written word when you cannot read the senders tone or body language. IMHO

[kavm]

While it is completely acceptable and desirable to disagree but when the same disagreement is expressed repeatedly to derail a thread - it borders on bullying. Having experienced it, it is a serious turn off and caused me to stop posting for a while.

Most recently on the quality thread, I saw multiple posters jump with negative and aggressive posts on someone merely relating their actual personal experience. While it is totally OK to state that the said negative experience does not jibe with theirs (though too much of that drowns out the negative data point) but to attempt to aggressively attack someone for just relating their personal experience is awful. And, I have definitely seen that on this board and found it highly regrettable.

The offending behavior is not a matter of people disagreeing but trying to attack and silence a an experience that does not match theirs. And, there should be no acceptance of that.

I say the above because it needs to be said. I would be remiss if I do not gratefully acknowledge that the 99.9% of the interactions on this board have been so overwhelmingly positive. The generosity of the members of this board has been tremendous and boundless. We'd probably still be stuck in Sumas, WA had it not been the help we have received here. So, our gratitude for the members is genuine.

We would like to see a bit more respect for the fellow members and see room to improve on that.

[Buzz505]

A response I had reciently: You don't want to live in new mexico. Enough said. I pick up my 5.0 in a week, then I will not check the forum unless I can not get help elsewhere.

[hrewer]

Originally Posted by Buzz505

A response I had reciently: You don't want to live in new mexico. Enough said. I pick up my 5.0 in a week, then I will not check the forum unless I can not get help elsewhere.

Buzz, I'm sorry someone said that to you. I love New Mexico, but then again I find good things about every place I go. That’s why we travel. It's funny that some people feel the need to cut down others. Hope to see you on the road.

[LRCURTIS]

As I have benefitted from the wisdom of members of this forum (and tolerated the opposite at times) I would like to appeal to those using this forum to provide only positive, considered feedback to others. Anything less is a distraction and may not provide the original poster the necessary motivation to apply your knowledge and increase their proficiency in the process. There are often multiple solutions to a given issue, each with their own set of pros and cons, and not every solution is ideal for every Escape owner. Providing objective information and allowing each owner to apply that information to achieve their own positive results is what I feel this forum is intended for and appreciate those who have been so helpful to me thus far. Many times, saying nothing is far more helpful.

Thank you to all of you that have been so generous with your knowledge and to the moderators that do their level-best to keep the peace. Being civil takes no more effort than the opposite.

[Buzz505]

Originally Posted by hrewer

Buzz, I'm sorry someone said that to you. I love New Mexico, but then again I find good things about every place I go. That’s why we travel. It's funny that some people feel the need to cut down others. Hope to see you on the road.

Funny thing is, I was welcoming a member from BC, he must have a great opinion of the members of this forum. I will be on the lookout for you guys on the trail.

[MVA]

Originally Posted by Buzz505

Funny thing is, I was welcoming a member from BC, he must have a great opinion of the members of this forum. I will be on the lookout for you guys on the trail.

Buzz,

I also live in the 505. If you want to bounce any trailer concerns or thoughts off of me, feel free to PM me. Unfortunately there are some on this forum that use the forum to primarily inflate their ego and not help others; some others on the forum have been very helpful to me and I am much appreciative of their assistance. Comments to this post will clearly differentiate which are which.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Buzz505

A response I had reciently: You don't want to live in new mexico. Enough said. I pick up my 5.0 in a week, then I will not check the forum unless I can not get help elsewhere.

I'm really sorry to hear you're allowing one person and one response drive you away.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by UncleTim

I think the perception of bullying is as important as what is said.

I read a post a few months ago in which a few ladies expressed hesitancy to post for fear for being made fun of. A few posts seemed to agree with that sentiment.

When that happens it denies all of us the opportunity to hear their thoughts and comments. It denies them the chance to find the community they seek just as it does us.

Bullies never see themselves as such. But you can tell when you hear them because their words cause people to separate, instead of bringing people together. There are no standards for this and everyone has been brought up differently.

I just think we should treat each other as kindly as possible, always. It's what I try to do. I still struggle at times.

Having been on newsgroups/bulletin boards since the mid-80's I've seen a lot of bullying. I'm also a moderator on another forum

This forum is commercial and owned by RV Life. They make money from this and other forums. It is commonly accepted that a forum makes money in the first three years of a persons joining or buying a product. New members are the heart and blood of these forums. Without their new purchases the forum will cease to exist. We need new members.

I was bullied in one of my first threads. Had I not been on forums before I would have left, but here I am. I'm not perfect, and last winter I posted a response that I wish I could take back, but with the short editing window it was too late. I've yet to revisit that thread.

OTOH, I've seen quit a bit of bullying on this forum, especially to new members. Many of these new members have either rarely been seen since or have quit altogether. New members are who pay the bills for this forum.

When I first started posting I noticed two members who would bully quite often, but now the one has pretty much quit. The other seems to get away carte blanche.

OTOH, it is what it is, and I doubt anything will change. This is an interesting discussion though.

Perry

[oldwave]

I’ll always help people who ask, it’s the way I was raised. However, I have also seen threads that have had a flammable comment interjected because someone is extremely unhappy with some issues, then accuse other members of bullying when they don’t agree. The tone of public discourse has certainly infected even our little community. Be nice, my daughter says, instead of complaining ask for help, you’ll find plenty to step up with suggestions and solutions. Ymmv

[YakRV]

I agree with oldwave. By the way, the “bullying” also comes from those who lash out at the “uneducated” “koolaid drinkers” taking kickbacks, etc, because they don’t like when someone defends ETI. This is not a one way street.

Unsolicited advice (worth about two cents): Be kind, communicate with folks online as if you’re talking to them face-to-face, appreciate those who offer help, and…………..ignore the jerks - why let them get you spooled up? Cheers everybody.