This is what happens when......

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by sofmerc

Moderators? this is going sideways,quickly

Huh? I haven't even seen a disagreement yet.

[Ooshkaboo]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Very interesting: This thread has delved into areas where opinions (some social, some political) may be debated, but based on the phraseology and adjectives used, I daresay that some people would be discouraged from expressing their opinions.
Moderators: what are the rules of this forum regarding this, and where are they posted?

Nowadays debate is not sought out to try and understand all viewpoints and actual facts, it has devolved into intolerance for any variation of the predetermined conclusion. There is one debate team that demands all comments agree with their views, and their facts are the only ones to be accepted.

Definitely people are discouraged from even bothering with such situations, by now we all know the drill, you’re this and you’re that insults that come from the angry people.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by Ooshkaboo

Nowadays debate is not sought out to try and understand all viewpoints and actual facts, it has devolved into intolerance for any variation of the predetermined conclusion. There is one debate team that demands all comments agree with their views, and their facts are the only ones to be accepted.

Definitely people are discouraged from even bothering with such situations, by now we all know the drill, you’re this and you’re that insults that come from the angry people.

I had posted a question (now deleted, because people mis-interpreted what I was asking, apparently) about where the forum rules are located. I've also passed communication onto the site team. So, for the benefit of anyone who is interested, here's the link to Janet's 'sticky' about site rules regarding forum discussion.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tte-11669.html

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

I had posted a question (now deleted, because people mis-interpreted what I was asking, apparently) about where the forum rules are located.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tte-11669.html

See post #17 where you are quoted.

[Hawkeye Ed]

In my humble opinion, the members of this forum are generally respectful of each other and each other's opinions. This particular thread is located in the "Cyber Campfire" section which is designed for "Off Topic | Ephemera, Jokes and Trivia". So it doesn't surprise me that views may be expressed here that others may not agree with.

As long as posts don't descend into attacking a poster's character or motives rather than answering their argument or claim, I'd be more than willing to allow these posts. Of course, if a particular thread wanders off where one don't care to read it any more, it's easy to ignore.

[MyronL]

I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by MyronL

I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

[escape artist]

Hi: All... "It's not good to fool Mother Nature". Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Iowa Dave]

I guess I couldn’t see any harm in a discussion of environmental degradation and a book read recommendation. But I suppose. As owners of campers that last a long long time compared to other choices I think we are all good people. I’ll drink to that.
Iowa Dave

[Gingerdog]

Originally Posted by MyronL

I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

Yes, It's like a bully in a school Yard. Trying to get all the attention.
After a while everyone gets wise and solves the problem as a group.

[MrLynn]

For intelligent and informed discussion of 'climate change' (formerly 'global warming'), I recommend Watts Up With That, https://wattsupwiththat.com

I won't venture further, acknowledging the ban on political matters here, which unfortunately this topic, that should be entirely empirical, has become.

[Ops]

Life is good.
Communication puts life into it.
Life is too short.

[Mike G]

I'm reminded of all the cliff dwellings (Mesa Verde is the most prominent, but there are so many) in our desert southwest. They represent a thriving native population that once lived in the area, at a time when rainfall was more plentiful and the land was more verdant. Alas, the climate changed and the people either died or walked to some other locale for survival.

You know about that huge desert in north Africa? It once was green and flourishing.

Climate change is real. It's been happening for eons. Man-made climate change.... eh, we think we are so powerful, but we are like ants on the back of an elephant. A few good volcanic eruptions could send us into a cold spell that will have everyone clamoring for a way to raise global temps.

[gbaglo]

The issue is that humans are accelerating climate change when we could slow it.
A short time ago, a member talked about wanting to visiting Tuktoyaktuk in the coming year. Twenty or thirty years ago I climbed down into a hole in the permafrost where they kept meat and such during the summer. Now, parts of Tuk are falling into the ocean because the permafrost is melting.

[RangerMan]

I read a book years ago that had a thought-provoking chapter. I can't remember the books title.

The premise was that when a species became too numerous for the environment to sustain, a pestilence of some kind would occur to decimate the population to a sustainable level. Examples were given but I can't remember any of them.

The author then wondered if the Earth might decide to do something about all these animals (us) over population and come up with a remedy. I remember I read this when Ebola was in the news for some reason, somewhere.

The author did not mention climate change, but could it be a remedy?

Wish I could remember the book.

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by Ooshkaboo

Nowadays debate is not sought out to try and understand all viewpoints and actual facts, it has devolved into intolerance for any variation of the predetermined conclusion. There is one debate team that demands all comments agree with their views, and their facts are the only ones to be accepted.

I believe to listen to all sides leads to enlightenment. I like to hear all sides, as long as everyone is kind. It helps me to understand to a finer degree.

I practice the LOVE principle. That is, when I interact with ANYONE, I try to come from the position of LOVE. I don't always get it right, cause I still make mistrakes. But I know LOVE is the answer.

This will keep coming up in normal discussions. After all, I kind of started this with my questioning of myself, if I was being negative. I did encounter this on my recent trip and Ditch drivin, Derecho Dave correctly pointed out that I was only reporting what I encountered. So it looks like this will continue to be a subject of discussion.

Sorry for going off topic. But I do love this kind of open discussion.

[MyronL]

Listening to both sides of a hot topic is truly the best way to evaluate it's merits. Agreed, so long as both sides keep it civil, do not get too emotional about it. How else can you decide that you know what you're talking about? It can lead to change, and change is inevitable... except from a vending machine.

[Fox hunt]

nice conversation on an important topic - rare these days

[Mike G]

If I were confident that man-made CO2 emissions were causing warming, and that the warming is dangerous, I would be on board. With all respect, I'm not convinced.


For one thing, I've read that there is disagreement about whether we have seen overall warming in the past 20 years. There are temp sensors on earth and there are readings from satellites. It is said that the satellite readings show a very slight cooling over the last 2 decades, and the reason given for the discrepancy with land-based readings is that the latter readings are being adjusted based on somewhat questionable assumptions about their location. I didn't bookmark those articles, but here's something in Forbes that mentions NOAA data showing a cooling trend. Here's one more from Science Times.


Also, I've read that current temperatures are not alarming in view of the larger picture of history; here's an article that suggests we are below the medieval warming period temps and well below those of the holocene maximum.


In addition, it has been said that CO2 makes up only about 400 parts per million of earth's atmosphere, which is a miniscule fraction. CO2 is required for plant life and as it encourages plant growth the plants will be converting CO2 into O2 at an increasing rate. CO2 is a "bit player" among greenhouse gases (water vapor is far more significant in effect, for example). Finally, physics experiments in the 1950s showed that CO2 absorbs 100% of the significant, heat-producing solar radiation in the narrow band it's capable of absorbing, within 300 meters' distance; thus, adding more CO2 cannot absorb more of that solar radiation because a substance can not absorb more than 100%.


My conclusion has been that climate alarmism is not warranted, pending further research and clarification/standardization of data. I feel like maybe it's a way for some group or other (perhaps the UN is part of this) to gain wealth and political power. The big pushes have been to get developed nations to cough up money (carbon credits) and to encourage abandonment of natural resource fossil fuels in favor of near-total reliance upon an electric grid that's increasingly fragile as well as vulnerable to EMP, and to do all this before the tech is in place to properly support and guard the change.


I hope I haven't said anything to upset anyone. I am only trying to explain my thought processes, which of course are the product of imperfect humanity... but what is in my cranium is the best I've got, know what I mean?

[Donna D.]

I keep thinking, someone has to be right. What will be the cost to humanity if we choose wrong. I want to see all countries embrace free energy, solar, wind, in some cases water. (AND yes, I realize to capture it isn't free in of itself). We really need advancements in solar and especially battery storage.