Electrical system troubleshooting

[ghosthunter]

Yeah that’s what he bid.


Does anyone know if thermostat for furnace is powered by 12 volt?

Went to use it this am. And it’s not showing temp or turning on furnace.
Has some small numbers on screen. We have a portable and are plugged into shore power. Wondering if that is part of my original problem.
We don’t use it much.

So many questions. I guess the honeymoon is over.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by ghosthunter

Yeah that’s what he bid.


Does anyone know if thermostat for furnace is powered by 12 volt?

Went to use it this am. And it’s not showing temp or turning on furnace.
Has some small numbers on screen. We have a portable and are plugged into shore power. Wondering if that is part of my original problem.
We don’t use it much.

So many questions. I guess the honeymoon is over.

Yes, the furnace fan and controls are 12V DC. What screen are you referring to? The trailers originally come with a mechanical thermostat. Do you have a digital replacement?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Didn't part of the previous frame remediation include welding "L" brackets on and eliminating the bolt through the frame? That's the way current trailers are made.

Ron- the additional body mount tabs were only required on the 19 apparently.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f2...tml#post111702

From his picture the mend plate at the A-frame joint appears to have been done as required by ETI.

[DGLP]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

They also make one with a removable knob if you want something with a lower profile. Just don’t lose the knob
https://powerwerx.com/panelhdswk-hea...removable-knob

This Blue Seas switch on Amazon is reduced in price by 38% to $27.10 US. 300 amp capacity. 3 possible configurations. Locking key. I like the enclosure and the price is good.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

[Iowa Dave]

Yes, tabs were provided and then the body bolts came up inside of the front storage box on our 19. The were 90 degree bend about 3/16 steel and about 2 inches by two inches . My welder was willing and able to install the fish plates and the tabs but did not want to drill up through the body. I showed Reace and he had a guy come out with the right sized drill and bit. Looked inside the box which I had cleaned out and on the other side and punched holes and nutted the bolts down in about two minutes.

My welder bill was $ 85. Reace’s crew had done a minor repair for me that day too and the bill was $115. He took my welding bill in one hand and an imaginary repair bill that was inside ( we were out in the lot) and pretended to balance his arms and hands and said “looks like we are even”. I said “good with me and headed for the Rally. He is a very good man in my book and was always good to us.
Iowa Dave

[DGLP]

Originally Posted by ghosthunter

Yes next to Wafco.
Most my wiring pumps and HW tank are in dinette storage drivers side.

The auto-reset thermal breaker does not seem to be in an ideal location. It could be damaged easily being so exposed, or do a number on your skin. One of ours bent due to the pressure of a loom. See photos

The screw connecting the ground wires to the frame was not particularly resistant to corrosion. I removed it, cleaned it and used dielectric grease over everything after reattaching. See photo. I have some stainless steel replacements.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Ron- the additional body mount tabs were only required on the 19 apparently.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f2...tml#post111702

From his picture the mend plate at the A-frame joint appears to have been done as required by ETI.

That's a bit of a puzzle. A vertical bolt through an important area like that is never a good idea. And that's where the failure occurred.

Ron

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by DGLP

This Blue Seas switch on Amazon is reduced in price by 38% to $27.10 US. 300 amp capacity. 3 possible configurations. Locking key. I like the enclosure and the price is good.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

When flush mounted as in the top illustration the knob is a non-issue. Quite frankly I'd rather have a non-removable knob. If you ever have to get the power off fast, as in smoking wires , you don't want to have to be looking for the knob.

Ron

[Viajante]

Ghosthunter, thanks for posting the picture of the frame crack. That made it easy to locate the problem spot when I checked my frame. Same frame, same bolt, but so far no visible crack.

[DGLP]

Originally Posted by ghosthunter

Up date up date, Houston we might have found the cause.

As stated above we left today for a 40 mile trip north to camp at Oostead Farm near Lynden Wa. To camp for weekend near my son s house for our granddaughters birth day.

Early this week I noticed my font storage lid was rubbing a bit on trailer, but figured it was swelling from weather.

Upon arriving at campsite I went to open front storage and could not get the lid open. It was against the trailer. What

I step back and knew right away what the problem was. The trailer frame had broken just behind the front stabilizers. No kidding broke completely off on driver side and over half on passenger side.

I stripped away insulation to expose the break next to the black water line .

Wow I am thanking god tonight. Our camp host knew a portable welder who came right out and he and I leveled the trailer closed the gap ,welded it shut and reinforced it with iron plate.

So I am wondering if the crack as it widen in my driveway put stress on electrical wires?
The main Wire harness runs right along the frame on drivers side.

So when I get back I am going to inspect the wire which is in a plastic sleeve for breaks.

It’s Interesting to note that this crack became worse while siting in my driveway 3 months.
I know for a fact that the storage box door was not rubbing when I parked it.


Can this be the cause of my mystery 12 volt issue.

Stand by.

Glad you're okay! Was there any sign of rust in the area of the fracture?

[ghosthunter]

Originally Posted by DGLP

Glad you're okay! Was there any sign of rust in the area of the fracture?

No sign of rust. But I had to cut away insulation on both sides.

[ghosthunter]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Yes, the furnace fan and controls are 12V DC. What screen are you referring to? The trailers originally come with a mechanical thermostat. Do you have a digital replacement?

Yes digital .

Good I didn’t need a new problem.

[DGLP]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

When flush mounted as in the top illustration the knob is a non-issue. Quite frankly I'd rather have a non-removable knob. If you ever have to get the power off fast, as in smoking wires , you don't want to have to be looking for the knob.

Ron

Very neat install. It's easy to locate, for sure. No chance of being turned off inadvertently

No intention of removing the key on ours. I favor the Blue Seas unit over the Powerwerx unit because it's rated for 3x the current and it's slightly less $$$. There are three configurations - nice to have options.

Escape uses a cable to attach the key to the shutoff. Can't be misplaced. See photos.

Replaced shut off on 21 NE along with numerous cables and numerous lugs at numerous connections. Lots of discussion here about batteries. May I add that one might check the diameter of the eyelets on the lugs and the quality of the crimps on the lugs? Less contact = more resistance? See photos

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by DGLP

This Blue Seas switch on Amazon is reduced in price by 38% to $27.10 US. 300 amp capacity. 3 possible configurations. Locking key. I like the enclosure and the price is good.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

Those switches work great too. Just prefer a smaller switch when mounted in the face of the dinette seat. If it is underneath the bench seat it really wouldn’t matter.

[ghosthunter]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Geez. Now this is really interesting. That's almost a completely separate power path to the DC board. The power from tow vehicle would typically intersect downstream of any battery fuse and the battery disconnect switch so if they were part of the issue you should have had power. The circuit from tow vehicle typically does include the auto reset circuit breaker but you just replaced that so that is not the issue. I'm officially stumped. I believe the only issue that would be common to both pathways is if it was a grounding problem.

Bingo

Grounding yep.

I was pleasantly surprised this morning when I disconnected the shore power at our campsite that the lights were on. Yep all 12 volt working.

The repair of the broken frame fixed the 12 volt problem completely.

I can only conclude that the cracked frame had interrupted the 12 volt ground.
The trailer was talking to me, I just didn’t understand the language.

To recap and put this issue to rest.

Sept. 2022 park trailer in my drive way,winterize,plug into shore power. At this point the frame must have had a crack .

Left for month October to hunt out of my wall tents.

Returned Nov. 1 checked interior of trailer, no issues, checked through weeks after storms .

Jan. 2 2023 start getting trailer ready for up coming weekend trip on 7 th. Discover 12 volt not working. Notice front storage lid where batteries are slightly rubbing front of trailer.

Concentrating on 12 volt cannot find problem getting tips from forum.

Trip come up and since we have full hook up at campsite 40 miles from home get ready to leave.

Ja. 6 hook up trailer to TV and load. Notice truck / trailer not quite level but shrug it off.

Travel 40 miles to Lynden Wa. Pull in to site. Go to open front storage lid cannot open, it is against front of trailer ,no gap between them. Step back and can see trailer sagging in front.

Further inspection show frame is completely broke through on both side just before the front stabilizers. There is a bolt through the frame on both sides there.

Call portable welder who repairs breaks.

Jan. 8 Discover 12 volt lights now working.

Return home no issues.

[ghosthunter]

I have Jan appointment at Rv repair shop for 12 volt. Going to have them check out frame instead. And address issue of frame behind black water pipe that welder could not reach.

Might be that we have to remove the pipe repair frame and put pipe back.

Wow.

[Viajante]

Wow is right. To rewind this result back to the testing, it looks like Ron in BC had the key suggestion to run a ground lead all the way back to the battery as a start. That should have turned on the lights, correct? But still, a cracked frame probably wasn't next on the list of culprits.

[ghosthunter]

I am guessing yes the ground wire would have produced light.

He was right on.

Twice I have lost all lights, once on the trailer and the other on my truck.

The truck was a 30 amp fuse on the positive post,
The trailer cracked frame ground issue.

So next time the first things I will check is fuses and grounds.

[Viajante]

Originally Posted by ghosthunter

So next time the first things I will check is fuses and grounds.

I'm not sure how to find all the grounds. Using the Ron method you could probe the positive side up to the electrical panel and find lights. Then switching to the negative side the panel would test good. The bad ground is between the panel and the battery. Are there grounds along there? How would you find them if the frame was insulated?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by ghosthunter

I have Jan appointment at Rv repair shop for 12 volt. Going to have them check out frame instead. And address issue of frame behind black water pipe that welder could not reach. Might be that we have to remove the pipe repair frame and put pipe back.

We’ve seen a few frame breaks reported. Personally if I had an older 13’, 15’ or 17’ with a 3” frame I would implement the same fix that was required of the 19’s on the second recall. This entails removing the stabilizers and welding on a support bar that matches the curvature and crosses the A-frame joint on each side. It extends generously towards the front and rear to strengthen the whole area. Keep this in mind as you discuss solutions.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f2...tml#post246147