Battery electric Pebble trailer

[EscapingDan]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

I don't have any problem with BEV cars, so long as it's the marketplace that's deciding whether to build them and consumers deciding whether to buy them.

Common misconception. One look at Tesla should convince anybody that this is all market driven. Who does Ford say is their biggest competitor? Tesla. Who does GM say? Tesla, and so on. Again those margins. Legacy OEMs make what, $800/vehicle on a truck? Tesla is making a fortune per car. That’s why the OEM’s are switching - and again customers who actually give them a shot love them.

Here’s a well done fact sheet on persistent myths about EV’s.

FALSE: ‘Sales of electric vehicles appear to be slowing’
One bizarrely persistent myth is that consumer appetites are turning away from EVs. An October 2022 article in the Times, for example, said that “sales of electric vehicles appear to be slowing”.

This is false: indeed, EVs sales are surging in the UK and globally. Yet a September 2023 Times article said the “popularity of electric cars (EVs) continues to wane”. …

Worth checking out, up to date and lots of info there

Is the high-range Silverado in production yet? Last I read, they were depending on a solid-state battery, which was still in development stage.

Yes it’s being sold to Fleet customers now - 500 mile range 4WT and 400 mile 450 mile range 3WT. RST retail sales should start next month. I don’t have the numbers I figured for production but I think Zero will be pushing out 20k/month Hummers/Silverado’s by January, with the second battery plant coming online in Jan that will increase. Depending on demand of course, economy is only getting worse, only people buying will probably be well-heeled individuals who aren’t worried about interest rates.

Otherwise solid state isn’t a thing yet. Not necessary, Silverado 4WT gets 500 mile range with regular lithium. Semi-solid state will probably come first I think, but all that will mean is a lighter battery. Which is good as we’ll get higher payload ratings, etc etc. But I believe 500 miles is all that is really needed for a EV TV (or ICE TV for that matter). That will probably be the high water mark for some years, maybe it’ll float up to 550ish eventually but 600 is overkill I think.

Anyhow thanks for the discussion, sorry if I was snippy ..

[Iowa Dave]

We are proud of our lifestyle and happy to contribute what we can to a better world. We do not believe using corn and soy beans for fuel should be an option when food could be grown on land that would feed the poor and under nourished people in our country and the rest of the world. When I take 50 spaghetti squash to the food pantry and recycle my cans and bottles on the way home I feel good. YMMV. Here’s an analysis of our contribution to the environment over the past three years. You can piss on my parade but you can’t extinguish my fire.
Iowa Dave

[MrLynn]

Dave, you should be proud. Planting trees, recycling trash, protecting the land, and self-sufficiency are all Good Things. And I'm glad to hear an Iowan say that corn should be used for food and not for fuel—absolutely right.

[rbryan4]

Reviewed this thread. Some are skating close to the edge. Please, you can make your points, but do so politely. Kind goes a long way on this forum. Thanks.

Robert
Site Team

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Reviewed this thread. Some are skating close to the edge. Please, you can make your points, but do so politely. Kind goes a long way on this forum. Thanks.

Robert
Site Team

And some, it seems, have gone over the cliff.

[bpjod]

At the risk of being a little late to the conversation, let me see if I can get this interesting (to me anyway) discussion back on track. My EV experience started with a 2012 Volt, then a 2018 Tesla Model 3 and finally decided last winter to upgrade our tow vehicle to a 2023 Model X. We have a 2014 Escape 21 that we tow with it. Our prior tow vehicles were a 2013 VW Touareg TDI (diesel - great tow vehicle) and a 2018 Toyota Highlander Ltd (gasser, mediocre, underpowered tow vehicle relative to the VW). If we forget about charging for the moment (and cost), the Model X is by far the most capable tow vehicle we've used with our trailer. It's not even close. But then one must take into account the charging issue...

200ish km is about the practical limit for towing our Escape 21 at 100 km/h. That uses up about 85% of our battery's range if there's not much elevation gain nor a headwind. Those factors would reduce the range. Driving slower increases the range, but charging infrastructure is currently on the most travelled routes (makes sense) and I don't like impeding the flow of traffic too much so I tend to drive 100-105 km/h when towing.

For common routes, Superchargers are spaced close enough together that this isn't a problem. The best resource for Supercharger locations is supercharge.info. Alternatively Tesla's map is a little slower to update with the newest chargers, but is also a useful resource. Finally Plugshare is the best resource for all charging stations (i.e. not just Tesla's), even slower ones (L2 and some L1). Those who don't have reason to pay attention are usually quite surprised at how good Tesla's Supercharging coverage is in North America.

The main issue with charging while towing is that most stalls aren't pull-through. Oftentimes you can manouvre yourself so that you don't have to unhitch as I've done in the photo. At more popular charging stations though you're more likely to have to unhitch the RV in a parking spot, go charge, then re-hitch back up before departing. Hopefully there's a quiet part of the parking lot you can do this without disturbing the flow of traffic.

In addition to the Pebble I've stumbled across other concept RVs like this too but while I think they're neat concepts, I don't think they're affordable nor very practical. Airstream is also showing a concept for a RV with a battery pack and electric drive motors. As Airstream is an actual company with real cashflow, I give them better odds of bringing a well-designed unit to market than the start-ups.

As for the concept of an RV with battery pack and an electric drivetrain, my feelings are mixed. Neat potential solution to alleviate range anxiety when towing an RV. Problem is, most people only use their RVs a few weeks per year. In those cases you've got a very expensive battery sitting around idle, degrading and not doing anything useful. Those batteries would be better used in an actual BEV or for grid storage or a battery backup for a house until such time that there's no battery constraint on converting our grid off of fossil fuels and all vehicles/heavy equipment are battery powered.

Another issue is that BEVs in campgrounds with electrical hookups are a rare sight. Their current electrical systems can handle the odd BEV charging overnight. Unlikely they could accommodate a campground full of BEVs charging overnight. Then with these electric drivetrain RVs, campers are going to want to charge the RV up in addition to their tow vehicle. Campgrounds in/near cities might be able to upgrade their electrical service to handle all that charging (but would they?) but more remote campgrounds? Not likely. I'd hate to see campground operators installing diesel generators to charge up BEVs and RVs with electric drivetrains. Kind of defeats the purpose, no?

A third problem is charging on the road. All the troubles I currently have charging my BEV tow vehicle on the road now will be doubled (or more) if I have to manouvre a trailer into a charging spot to top its battery up too.

As someone who's currently experiencing the BEV/RV lifestyle (and will be retiring in a few months to enjoy it even more!), my hope is for more effort spent on improving the charging infrastructure - including pull-through stalls. I hope that the charging infrastructure becomes so good that there's no need at all for someone to even consider purchasing an RV with an electric drivetrain (or a fossil-fuel powered tow vehicle for that matter). Additionally, more aerodynamic, lightweight RVs would also be a big help.

[NoSOD]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Seems odd that charging stations are not drive-through. Can you imagine if gas pumps were not? It would be chaos!

Your TV/21 combo looks good. Are you able to stay below your GVWR?

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by NoSOD

Thanks for sharing your experience. Seems odd that charging stations are not drive-through. Can you imagine if gas pumps were not? It would be chaos!

Your TV/21 combo looks good. Are you able to stay below your GVWR?

Pull thru stalls are getting more common but still far from being the norm. We rarely have to unhook to charge and there’s usually a way but pull thru chargers are always welcome.

[HABBERDABBER]

I agree with the post #66 evaluation by bpjod. Financial wisdom for having a Pebble is a stretch. But, there are plenty of folks with the coin to not be concerned with that. I'm not one of them.

And yes, having a large battery around doing nothing for much of the time is not efficient. Nor is having a substantial amount of money "invested" in a travel trailer sitting around for most of its existence, sitting, doing nothing. So money and BEV & EV trailer charging issues aside, there are innovative features to the Pebble concept. Off grid use for a week or more with the traction battery. That is not a big deal to me, unless AC is needed. Use of that battery to power the trailer to increase range, mpg & capability of either a BEV or standard ICE vehicle. Useful.
Automated hitching of trailer to tug. Sweet. A 1,000 watts of solar for recharging. Nice. I'm impressed, conceptually. That is all. Time will tell if this makes the market, finds a big enough of a market for sustained production and where it all will go.

Like many facets in life, the naysayers are often the folks who do not have the direct experience of something. All I know is, the world is a changing. There's tons of posts on this forum of folks adding solar and lithium batteries. That wasn't the case a short while ago. But I digress.

[bpjod]

Originally Posted by NoSOD

Thanks for sharing your experience. Seems odd that charging stations are not drive-through. Can you imagine if gas pumps were not? It would be chaos!

Your TV/21 combo looks good. Are you able to stay below your GVWR?

Thanks for that rabbit hole NoSOD. I cannot find the GCWR for the Model X. Nor can I find the the actual weight for my Model X. I can find that the weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 450kg/992lbs (that would speak to the GVWR). Assuming a max hitch weight of 500lbs that leaves 492lbs for my wife, I and gear in the vehicle; fairly easy for us to achieve.

The towing specs are 500lbs hitch weight and 5000lbs towing. I have to presume they manufactured the vehicle for a GCWR of whatever (the vehicle weighs + 992lbs) [GVWR] + 5000lbs [towed], but I cannot prove it. I found the GAWR front/rear, but cannot find the GCWR. Hmm...

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by bpjod

Thanks for that rabbit hole NoSOD. I cannot find the GCWR for the Model X. Nor can I find the the actual weight for my Model X. I can find that the weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 450kg/992lbs (that would speak to the GVWR). Assuming a max hitch weight of 500lbs that leaves 492lbs for my wife, I and gear in the vehicle; fairly easy for us to achieve.

The towing specs are 500lbs hitch weight and 5000lbs towing. I have to presume they manufactured the vehicle for a GCWR of whatever (the vehicle weighs + 992lbs) [GVWR] + 5000lbs [towed], but I cannot prove it. I found the GAWR front/rear, but cannot find the GCWR. Hmm...

Yes, your premise is correct except for the fact that in my experience some vehicles have a GCWR that is not a straight add as you indicate. Not sure if this is across the board with all vehicles but many SUV's are not rated for full payload and maximum towing weight simultaneously.

[Downsized]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Yes, your premise is correct except for the fact that in my experience some vehicles have a GCWR that is not a straight add as you indicate. Not sure if this is across the board with all vehicles but many SUV's are not rated for full payload and maximum towing weight simultaneously.

In Tesla’s case it’s actually right in the manual that towing capacity is with vehicle at full GVWR when used with stock rims.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Downsized

In Tesla’s case it’s actually right in the manual that towing capacity is with vehicle at full GVWR when used with stock rims.

Good to know. Thanks.

[siamblue]

I found this on YouTube https://enjoythejourney.life/pebble
A new trailer to check out. Going to be manufactured in Silicon Valley.

[Viajante]

I like seeing new design ideas. The remote control hitching is a seductive promo. It certainly would be the star of the campground and the base price for the premium version actually seems low at $125k. At least lower than I expected.

[Ron in BC]

Isn't this the one that was being discussed a few weeks ago?

Notice the "expected delivery, end of 2024". If it actually goes into production I'd expect the cost to be a lot higher than quoted.

Ron

[Read Newman]

Now thats what I call AWESOME!!

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Isn't this the one that was being discussed a few weeks ago?

Yes.
I just combined the two threads.

[Civilguy]

Having long been an unsuccessful nay-sayer, I'll confidently predict that the future will be different from whatever it is that we think.

When they brought computers into our workplace, I was not impressed. The storage media was particularly dodgy; I also lost a great deal of work to various crashes. As for that flash-in-the-pan called the internet, what a joke; there was no content, the connections were dodgy and download speeds were impractically slow.

So, what sort of besotted fool would bet on such a combination of inadequate hardware and the accompanying poor infrastructure of the internet? I didn't, but, they kept evolving and within about ten years all of this became essential to my daily work, never mind the "handheld computers" and wireless connections I utilize today...

I see an analogy in electric vehicles; some point to perceived inadequacies or failings in the vehicles or say our grid can't sustain the charging requirements. But, like previous failings in PCs and the internet, this too will change.

I get what may be a different message from the story of Norman Borlaug. While there was a huge movement to effect zero population growth and confident predictions that humanity was going to suffer a great die-off as our food supply was demonstrably too limited to sustain us and there was insufficient additional arable land to adequately increase the supply, Borlaug's essentially technological evolutions in breeding new strains of wheat completely changed the picture and staved off the starvation scenario, at least to date.

I guess today they call that disruption. It was an unanticipated innovation which altered the calculus of the world's food supply. What innovations are we failing to predict today?

Hardly more than hundred years ago, the new fangled horseless carriages raised a specter of dread:

Red flag law in the United States
In the United States, the state of Vermont passed a similar Red Flag Law in 1894, only to repeal it two years later.[2] This law stated that "[t]he owner or person in charge of a carriage, vehicle or engine propelled by steam, except road rollers" must have a "person of mature age [...] at least one-eight of a mile in advance of" the vehicle, to warn those with livestock of its impending arrival. If at night, it also required the aforementioned person to carry a red light.

Things change. They always have and always will, often and perhaps most dependably, in manners that we have consistently failed to predict.

For what it might be worth, I'd be pleased to own a low-range EV of some sort; a grocery-getter if you will with perhaps 100 to 150 miles of range. The whole "what-if" of having adequate range and/or charging facilities has the marketplace tied into knots of anxiety regarding capacities we might only use occasionally if at all, resulting in what appear to be unnecessarily heavy vehicles.

Make of that what you will. I offer no links, I have no "proof", just my ramblings here.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

Having long been an unsuccessful nay-sayer, I'll confidently predict that the future will be different from whatever it is that we think.

Yup, Popular Mechanics said that I'd have a flying car a long time ago and my dad said that Elvis Presley would never amount to anything.

Ron