4x4 or not?

[Carmel Clown]

Whew! Lots of things to think about. I'm probably wrong about this, but aren't the different Drive gears used for steep or slippery conditions? The M, 2 and 1?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Carmel Clown

Whew! Lots of things to think about. I'm probably wrong about this, but aren't the different Drive gears used for steep or slippery conditions? The M, 2 and 1?

how you use your vehicles gearing kind of depends on the vehicle and what sort of transmission it has and stuff. I normally only use '1' on my F250's 4 speed automatic when I want to be crawling pretty slowly, like walking speed when I don't want to raise any dust. I will use 2 coming down a steep grade to help control my speed, and I will use 2 while climbing a long grade if the transmission keeps shifting between 2nd and 3rd.

As far as traditional 4x4 gears go, I only ever use 4L when climbing a very steep loose grade. In fact, I normally don't use 4x4 at all offroad except when I have to... use it to get UNstuck, sure, but if you rely on it to get stuck, then you're really stuck

if I keep this F250 4x4, I want to upgrade both differentials with Eaton TrueTrac limited slip units as a few times I've had both tires on one side on wet grass or leaves or something, and had trouble with those tires spinning when trying to get my trailer moving. The TrueTrac limited slip diff will make that almost impossible to happen. My truck actually came with a Ford limited slip rear, but its worn out, as they rely on braking elements inside the diff, and installing a TrueTrac will cost nearly the same as replacing the Ford LS diff. I was quoted about $1000 each to swap the differentials by a shop that just does differentials (and my regular shop referred me to them, saying they *could* do it but these guys were way more experienced).

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Carmel Clown

Whew! Lots of things to think about. I'm probably wrong about this, but aren't the different Drive gears used for steep or slippery conditions? The M, 2 and 1?

Since you mention an interest in an F150 in a previous post ...

All F150 since at least 2021 model year have a 10-speed automatic transmission and a push-button 'mode' selector for different surface conditions (e.g. mud, snow, sand, etc. as well as a tow-mode).

Ford offers 2 distinct 4WD systems on the F150 and they are tied to the 'trim level' of the truck; in a nutshell:

• Both systems offer 2WD, 4WD High, and 4WD Low ranges
• XL and XLT trims get a 4WD system (called "ESOF", Electronic Shift-On-the-Fly) that is intended for use 'off-road / loose surfaces' only within relatively low speed ranges.
• Lariat and higher trim levels get a 4WD system (called "TOD", Torque-On-Demand) which adds a "4A" mode; "4A" can be used on any road surface at any speed, essentially performing similar to an 'All Wheel Drive' system. Some folks drive in "4A" mode all of the time and that's OK according to Ford.
• I'm ignoring the 'exotic trims' like Tremor and Raptor which have other unique 4WD system features.

Sorry to add to the things to think about, but you seem interested in being a well-informed consumer, thus the above FYI.

My 2022 Lariat is 4WD by choice, but it's my first 4WD so I've managed for many decades of F150's with 2WD+limited-slip differential, only getting 'stuck' a very few times (invariably on slick hard clay or wet grassy surfaces).

I've really not 'needed' the 4WD on the Lariat for its own purposes but have used 4WD low a few times to pull friends out of difficult situations. I do use the 4A setting quite frequently on wet pavement and my slick wet pasture grass, it does seem to offer a bit more 'security of traction', otherwise I just stay in 2WD for dry-weather daily driving.

I'm a native central-Texan and long ago learned to simply stay off the roads when it rarely snows (my skills limitation and that of other drivers on the road, nothing to do with vehicle drive systems). I've always used '3-season road tires' rather than opting for a more aggressive 'off-road' tread, preferring a tire that's quieter for my predominantly on-pavement driving.

The initial cost and ~1mpg EPA mileage 'hit' were not factors for me, nor are the very few additional but very infrequent maintenance items.

Nope, I don't consider 4WD necessary for me, it's just something I wanted to try and as it turns out I'm enjoying having it.

As always, just for your consideration, YMMV, Happy Shopping!

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if I keep this F250 4x4, I want to upgrade both differentials with Eaton TrueTrac limited slip units as a few times I've had both tires on one side on wet grass or leaves or something, and had trouble with those tires spinning when trying to get my trailer moving. The TrueTrac limited slip diff will make that almost impossible to happen. My truck actually came with a Ford limited slip rear, but its worn out, as they rely on braking elements inside the diff, and installing a TrueTrac will cost nearly the same as replacing the Ford LS diff. I was quoted about $1000 each to swap the differentials by a shop that just does differentials (and my regular shop referred me to them, saying they *could* do it but these guys were way more experienced).

The helical geared LS (i.e. Eaton TrueTrac) differentials are very nice and a big upgrade over the clutch based diff. I have had a number of clutch based LS diff's over the years in sports cars and they were mostly questionable in their ability to transfer torque to the stationary wheel after about 20 - 25k miles of use. I owned a 2007 Civic Si sedan as a daily driver for 14yrs and it came from the factory with a helical geared LS diff in it and I was constantly impressed with it. Even with > 100k miles on it I never had to wonder if both tires were grabbing like I did with so many Mustangs and Camaro's that had clutch based LS diff's in them.

Due to that experience I upgraded my 2WD 2014 F150 that came with a 9.75 axle, stock open diff and 3.32 gears to a helical geared LS diff and 3.73 gears a couple of years ago. I can say that the driveability is much improved. Part of that was due to the better gearing but a lot of it was due to the better grip especially in wet/slippery conditions, but also in turns (no more inside wheel slip when accelerating moderately in a tight turn). I've had bad experiences with speed shops and general mechanics in the past when I've had gears replaced. This time I took mine to a dedicated gearbox and differential shop to have the work performed and I can attest that this is the way to go.

[WillyB]

I just had my drivers side IWE Actuator replaced on my 2016 F150 XLT. The system works perfectly until they don't.

Took it to the dealer and drove it back home the next day. Fortunately since I bought the truck from this dealer all it cost was $300.

I made the mistake of buying a 2-Wheel drive truck a few years ago and got stuck in a flat dew covered grassy field by a lake. 2 guys late at night with too many daddy colas....it was pretty comical to watch. Good thing our wives came to pick us up so we could try again in the morning.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Centex

Since you mention an interest in an F150 in a previous post ...

All F150 since 2001 model year have a 10-speed automatic transmission and a push-button 'mode' selector for different surface conditions (e.g. mud, snow, sand, etc. as well as a tow-mode)....

the 10 speed transmission was new in model year 2017 or 2018. 2001 still used the old 4 speed (3 + 'overdrive').

the 10 speed is indeed an awesome transmission, but do note some early years of it were very prone to transmission problems (but then, so were 2001 4-speeds, I had an E150 van that had 4 transmissions fail in 30,000 miles).

[Chasing Trials]

Originally Posted by Carmel Clown

I've seen a few posts asking what truck people are towing the 5.0 with. How many of you have 4x4? Do you think it is necessary? Anyone worry about getting stuck in sand, wet grass, etc. with 2w drive?
Thanks.

Lots of "Depends". #1 would do you know how to drive just using 2x4? 2nd is Tires. 3rd, where do you want to be able to go with your rig? 4th are you smart enough to say just stay put, if need be. etc. I lived in New England driving 2x4s for 30 yrs. I did get stuck with my E250 once, but it was "Mud Season", & good chance 4x4 would have too, where I went(trying to stay out of deep ruts on a dirt/MUD road). Tires & weight. Trailer weight takes care of that. I owned a F250 4x4 for 14 yrs. Can count on one hand the times I used it in 4x4.

That said, My Rig is a E19 & TV 2014 Prerunner a 2x4 Tacoma on a 4x4 frame & set up.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the 10 speed transmission was new in model year 2017 or 2018. 2001 still used the old 4 speed (3 + 'overdrive')

Thanks for the catch, sorry, for the typo, meant to be 2021 in reference to the current F150 generation 14.

Now corrected in my post above

[John in Santa Cruz]

btw, re those 4x4 systems, interesting, we've been shopping 2019+ Ford Expedtions, which have the same 3.5L Ecoboost, and 10 speed automatics as the f150s. Most of them have pushbutton selected 2H/4H only mode, while the ones with the 9500 lb HD Tow package also have 4L and N (transfer case Neutral, which allows flat towing). The HD ones also have a electrical rear diff locker, so I'm trying to limit my search to those cars, but its tricky, most of the ones with the HD Tow are the longer body Max that I don't want.

Annoyingly, the ones that have the 'comfort features' we like all have 22" wheels, while I want 18" wheels, looking like I'll have to sell the 22's and buy my own 18's so I can put A/T tires on it with a reasonable sidewall profile (/65 instead of /45). This Expedition *will* be our 'new' tug, and definitely will have 4x4.

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by WillyB

I made the mistake of buying a 2-Wheel drive truck a few years ago and got stuck in a flat dew covered grassy field by a lake. 2 guys late at night with too many daddy colas....it was pretty comical to watch. Good thing our wives came to pick us up so we could try again in the morning.

Unfortunately a lot of 2WD vehicles, both trucks and cars, are really 1WD most of the time due to the fact they have an open differential or the clutches in their limited slip (LS) differential are shot and not working properly. So yes very easy to get stuck especially when regular street tires are involved.. Many current vehicles use open differentials but then apply the brake to the wheel that is spinning to help transfer the torque to the non-spinning or slower spinning wheel on the same axle. This is the cheap way to do it and saves the manufacturer $$$ over having to put a more expensive LS diff in the vehicle. Its been my experience that this "brake application" method is a poor replacement for a properly working LS differential.

[WillyB]

That truck had the electronic locking diff. I could put it in drive, get out and watch both wheels spinning in slo mo.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

..... (transfer case Neutral, which allows flat towing). The HD ones also have a electrical rear diff locker ....

Getting afield from the OP's question, but FWIW the current gen 14 F150 has a procedure in the owners manual for allowing 'flat towing / 4-wheel-down towing' ("Recreational Towing" as titled in the manual) with either of the 4WD systems. Not a surprise that the 4x2 cannot be flat towed.

An "e-locker" rear differential is of course available, included with a number of option packages or as a stand-alone option with many configurations / ratios; it's not specifically limited to the various "HD" packages per se.

In one of my events assisting another stranded vehicle the e-locker did the trick; on another it took 4WD to do the job. 4WD is hugely more effective than the just the rear locker for gaining traction with an unladen truck as I'm sure you know. Yes, these 'assists' carefully conducted with proper recovery-straps and vehicle connections.

[Carmel Clown]

Originally Posted by Chasing Trials

I lived in New England driving 2x4s for 30 yrs. I did get stuck with my E250 once, but it was "Mud Season", & good chance 4x4 would have too, where I went(trying to stay out of deep ruts on a dirt/MUD road). Tires & weight. Trailer weight takes care of that. I owned a F250 4x4 for 14 yrs. Can count on one hand the times I used it in 4x4.

That's my thought, the weight of the fifth wheel will help traction.

Wondering how many with a 5.0 and 2WD get stuck while towing as opposed to stuck when not towing. My truck with almost exclusively be used for towing.


Also I'm wondering if the loss of payload of the 4x4 is worth it - someone said it was like 300 pounds difference. Right now I have a F250 and don't have to worry about what I take along on trips at all.

[Lanark Camper]

I’ve owned a number of 2 and 4 wheel drive trucks. Mostly Fords and Chev’s. The last two were Chev Silverado 4x4s. I like the Eaton differentials. Trouble free, no clutch to wear, lockup automatically.

I seldom need to engage 4 wheel drive but when I do I’m happy to have it. I live in Canada and have done 4 hr winter road trips in 4 wheel drive.

I’ve had to give vans, trucks etc a tug in campgrounds to get out of a campsite or up a slick hill. We are often in isolated areas and on our own, it’s one less complication.

As mentioned tires are important, I’m running BF Goodrich KO2’s. Highly recommend for two or four wheel drive, great snow tire too. The very stiff sidewall is great for towing.

Demo of the Eaton diff here,

https://youtu.be/uLgze5NR6Ks

Bob

[Carmel Clown]

Okay, limited slip differential or locking differential?

[Lanark Camper]

Originally Posted by Carmel Clown

Okay, limited slip differential or locking differential?

A limited slip uses clutch packs to connect the drive to the axles. Unfortunately they do wear and gradually become less effective with time.
The Eaton differential is a mechanical system to lockup when one tire is more than 100 rpm more than the other.

Bob

[Carmel Clown]

Thanks. Does anyone know what brand locking diff that Ford uses?

[SRS]

Originally Posted by Carmel Clown

Thanks. Does anyone know what brand locking diff that Ford uses?

Eaton is a mechanical type of limited slip that locks automatically. They also make an electronic locking differential but I don't know if Ford uses them. My F-150 XLT has an electronic locking differential. It's engaged by pressing a button on the dash at which point both rear wheels are locked and turn at the same rate. Suitable for dirt roads and wet or icy roads where the one of the wheels can slip so the differential doesn't get torn apart.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Carmel Clown

Okay, limited slip differential or locking differential?

With the current gneration of F150 an electronic locking (manually activated by push of a button when needed) is your only OE option (excepting those 'exotic' trims like Tremor / Raptor).

I'm fairly certain that other manufacturers only provide one type option for their 'improved traction' differentials, too, (either a limited-slip of some design or a locker of some design).

The point being, when shopping for a current or near-current model year truck you take what you can get and can remove further nuance from the already long list of 'decisions to be made'.

Simplification of the buying decision matrix is good, yes?

[UncleTim]

My experience.

I live in Colorado so staying off roads when they are slippery is not practical. Too many times I woke up to snow on a travel day. Mostly it all works out and I do try and avoid snowy travel. If I need to stay put, I will!

But I never know when I am going to need 4x4 drive. There is one spot directly in front of my driveway that I need 4x4 traction (for four or five months in a row). Just one small, very slippery, spot that I get stuck in while backing in to my driveway. Go figure. But I do need it.