Karl with EV Ford Truck

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

I'm not aware of any hybrids with wheel end motors, they would effectively be P4. I have seen at least one EV concept with wheel end motors.

I guess there could be some ways that wheel end motors would be great, but there is one way in particular that they would not be good, and that is in keeping unsprung weight reasonable. Having a large amount of weight in a vehicle that is not carried by the springs (typically wheels, tires, brakes, steering knuckle......stuff like that) is bad. It makes for bad handling, bad ride.....it's undesireable.

And motors in the wheels makes for a lot of unsprung weight.

Also, one other problem is that putting the motors in the wheel ends is a more difficult design challenge for the drive units.The main issue is vibration and shock loading, the life of components riding on the (relatively) supple springs is a lot easier than the life of power electronics that have nothing but the tire between them and the road.

Another problem could be vulnerability to dirt, dust, water, snow, and salt, which can be death to motors.

[Tosh]

i think I was mistaken about the Lexus hybrid drive train. What I have read is that it is an AWD/CVT system, with ICE driving the front wheels and electric driving the rear. Motors are not on the wheels themselves.


In the case of the F-150 Lightning, there are 2 motors, mounted above each axle. And a single speed transmission....

[KirkB]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

CO2 is plant food, not 'poison'. Patrick Moore said it better than I could:

https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uplo...10/Moore-2.pdf

I have no doubt that carbon emissions do affect climate, but realized that there have been severe climate shifts since the dinosaur ages, such as the ice ages that are not part of the everyday discussion. An interesting perspective, thanks for the link.

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Tosh

i think I was mistaken about the Lexus hybrid drive train. What I have read is that it is an AWD/CVT system, with ICE driving the front wheels and electric driving the rear. Motors are not on the wheels themselves.

In the case of the F-150 Lightning, there are 2 motors, mounted above each axle. And a single speed transmission....

Electric motors need only a single-speed transmission; gearing limits top speed, however.

On diesel-electric locomotives the drive motors are on the axles. The axles are sprung on the trucks (bogies), so the motors are also sprung weight, I think. I assume that would be true of cars as well.

Interestingly, electric locomotive motors on axles are subject to shorting in flood waters. In years past steam locomotives had to pull them out. So don't go fording in your 'EV'.

Personally, I'd like to see the steam-powered (external combustion) car resurrected. The problem in the old days was getting them going. Maybe we could pre-heat the boiler with a battery!

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

Now please, can you get off your soapbox and return to the topic of EV's and towing.....exclusively. Take your views to some other venue, please.

Thank you. We're about one minute from closing the thread. And there are those that do not want to be suspended from posting from not following forum rules... honestly you don't. Be good.

[Escape_19]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

Some brands of EV do fairly well in cold weather, but I can expect a 25% to 40% reduced range in the worst of frozen tundra wasteland Wisconsin Winter with a Chevy Bolt EUV.

@HABBERDABBER
Hmmm.....I always thought that the wasteland of Wisconsin was Beloit ...NOT ...Waunakee.

Either way, way up north in Stoddard WI this Ford F150 Lightning with a 95-110 mile towing range on an E19 isn't going to prove to be very useful. Even Karl at Escape states that it probably won't be a practical tow vehicle.

[Iowa Dave]

If anyone out there has absolute confidence and ability in predicting the future, they probably won’t be fooling around with fiberglass trailers and calculating gas milage or kilowatts per mile. They will be spending some time on the betting apps and saying “Henry, bring the Prevost around, I feel like a campfire and a bottle of Dom at the lake this evening. Oh and bring my fish pole and some crawlers.”

How about that Brock Purdy from my Alma Mater?
Iowa Dave

[cpaharley2008]

Let's keep this on track or the thread will be closed....

[Escape_19]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Let's keep this on track or the thread will be closed....

Jim...

Help is it going off the rails .....

[marsman]

Hey folks, came across several articles regarding Ford placing a patent on a new range extender for the FOrd F150 Lightning, see here:

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/sp...-150-lightning

Looks very similar to what BMW have on their I3 model except you'd be able to take this one off the truck when not needed, may be an answer??

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by Escape_19

Jim...

Help is it going off the rails .....

I have a strap in the back of the Highlander, I’ll be over shortly and set her back up.
You’re Welcome
Iowa Dave

[Mike G]

EVs need to stay off track... or do they? Tesla tricks...
https://twitter.com/seanmmitchell/st...61845434605573

[MrLynn]

Originally Posted by Mike G

EVs need to stay off track... or do they? Tesla tricks...
https://twitter.com/seanmmitchell/st...61845434605573

Surprised the heck out of me! Was that a Tesla? Looked sorta generic. The locomotive had no markings; probably didn't want to upset a railroad. Were those NJ tags on the car?

[splitting_lanes]

Originally Posted by marsman

Hey folks, came across several articles regarding Ford placing a patent on a new range extender for the FOrd F150 Lightning, see here:

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/sp...-150-lightning

Looks very similar to what BMW have on their I3 model except you'd be able to take this one off the truck when not needed, may be an answer??

I like it! Keeps you electric when that’s enough, and you can have extra range when needed. I’m sure it could be a fairly low power, efficient motor. Yeah, like the i3.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by splitting_lanes

I’m sure it could be a fairly low power, efficient motor. Yeah, like the i3.

The variant on a large scooter engine (from Kymco) in the i3 REx is low powered, but the car's fuel economy when using it is not very good. The serial hybrid configuration is difficult to do well.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

Was that a Tesla? Looked sorta generic.

Yes, it is a Tesla Model S.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

On diesel-electric locomotives the drive motors are on the axles. The axles are sprung on the trucks (bogies), so the motors are also sprung weight, I think. I assume that would be true of cars as well.

They are on the axles, which makes them unsprung (not supported by the springs). While electrically powered beam axles are available for trucks, and used by some battery-electric heavy trucks, they are not used on cars because cars don't have beam axles any more, and because the ride and handling would be unacceptably poor by today's standards. All electric cars have independent suspension for all driven wheels and none have the motors as unsprung weight.

Originally Posted by MrLynn

Interestingly, electric locomotive motors on axles are subject to shorting in flood waters. In years past steam locomotives had to pull them out. So don't go fording in your 'EV'.

Locomotives and cars operate in very different conditions, and the manufacturers understand that, so they are designed and constructed differently to suit those conditions. EV cars and trucks don't short out anything in the depth of water that a typical car can drive in.

Originally Posted by MrLynn

I'd like to see the steam-powered (external combustion) car resurrected. The problem in the old days was getting them going. Maybe we could pre-heat the boiler with a battery!

A steam engine would not be efficient enough for a modern vehicle.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MrLynn

Another problem could be vulnerability to dirt, dust, water, snow, and salt, which can be death to motors.

That doesn't really matter because EVs use sealed motors.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Tosh

i think I was mistaken about the Lexus hybrid drive train. What I have read is that it is an AWD/CVT system, with ICE driving the front wheels and electric driving the rear. Motors are not on the wheels themselves.

Correct for the transverse-engine Lexus (and Toyota) hybrid models (NX, RX)... but the engine drives the front wheels through a power-split hybrid transmission - even the front can be driven electrically.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Tosh

In the case of the F-150 Lightning, there are 2 motors, mounted above each axle. And a single speed transmission....

Yes, there is one motor per axle, but they're in line with the axle shafts, not above the axles. Yes, each motor drives through a single-speed reduction gear set (and differential).