Generator questions

[Jane P.]

Originally Posted by Dcgrout@icloud.com

Hi - We have a 21C on order. We are planning on going with a RecPro AC3400 unit, and powering it with a Honda EU3000is generator. Where are folks carrying their generators while in transit? We have a F350 with a canopy, so no problem there, other than getting it in and out of the bed while in camp as it weighs 130 lbs. Suggestions/solutions? Thanks.

I personally believe that it is a good idea to have a backup generator, whether you use it for AC or not. On my very first camp trip there was a problem with the charging system. Luckily we went camping with friends, and they loaned us their generator.

Definitely rethink the Honda generator. The RecPro AC appears to have a running watt of 1300. You can handle that with a 2200/1800w inverter generator, which would weigh less than half the of the Honda. I am a big fan of the Champion inverter generators. Consider their duel fuel 2200 or 2500 watt inverter. They weigh about 45 lbs and are fairly quiet. Champion builds reliable products and have outstanding customer service. They cost several hundred dollars less than the Honda.

Regarding placement, consider the weight configuration of the 21C. Too much weight in the back of the trailer increases the tendency for it to sway under tow. If you add high winds, or sudden maneuvers on the highway, locating the generator on the back can result in a serious accident.

Before mounting anything on your trailer, weigh it - with both the tow vehicle & trailer fully packed for camping. Fill your water tank 1/3 of the way. You’ll need to use the scale several times to get the TV and trailer together, the tongue weight and the trailer weight. This will help you determine if it is safe to mount the generator on the rear porch of your trailer. Remember, you’ll have to estimate the weight of any mounting hardware as well as the generator.

I suspect that you’ll determine the safest place to store the generator will on the front - in the storage box behind the propane tanks. If that turns out to be the case, you’ll need to figure out how to secure it in that location. Taking it in & out of the storage box will be a pain, you only need the generator once per week.

Personally, I have never needed to run my AC while dry camping. It’s one thing to use the generator every few days for a couple of hours to recharge your batteries. It’s quite another to run the generator & AC most of the evening. In addition to pissing off other campers, it simply isn’t practical. If you know you’ll be exposed to uncomfortably hot weather, find a campsite with hookups.

However, I can see an emergency situation (smoke from a nearby forest fire), where I’d use it for a few hours. But under that scenario, I’d leave the area at the earliest opportunity, and to find a campsite providing full hookups or go home.

Just say’n

[Steveanson]

Originally Posted by Dcboyd

If the Champion 2400 it will power your AC it should power mine. Will it do so on propane?
Without the soft start kit?

The 2500w Champion (I mistyped 2400w) will start and run our 13.5k soft start AC on propane. I can't speak for the AC without the soft start. Also, this gen will run about 60% longer on propane though to my ear, seems to make a bit more noise.

Now, this and most small generators has a floating neutral. It's not a big deal unless you have the optional EMS on your trailer. If so, when plugging the gen directly into your power input the EMS will give you an error code E1, indication an open ground.
It's an easy fix using a neutral bonding plug. They can be purchased for about ten bucks, but I made my own from parts on hand. A male 120v plug and a 3" piece of appliance wire. Simply jumper between the green gnd post to the neutral (silver) post, and plug into the generator. The neutral is now bonded to the ground, and the EMS will accept the 120v input.

[j900z]

I thought I saw in one of the Escape videos that if you have the 1500w inverter option installed that you have to be able to disable the generator's inverter or get one without an inverter because the RV and generator's inverters cancel each other out or are not compatible. Is this the case? Talking about the 5.0 with full solar package and installed inverter running the Dometic A/C. Would like to run the A/C away from shore power. Thanks.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by j900z

I thought I saw in one of the Escape videos that if you have the 1500w inverter option installed that you have to be able to disable the generator's inverter or get one without an inverter because the RV and generator's inverters cancel each other out or are not compatible. Is this the case? Talking about the 5.0 with full solar package and installed inverter running the Dometic A/C. Would like to run the A/C away from shore power. Thanks.

Short answer - no.

Adding an inverter to an inverter generator is a way to allow the engine to run at any speed and still produce 60 hz AC. The engine speed changes with the load on the generator. A non inverter generator runs at 3600 RPM all the time, and is generally much louder than an inverter generator.

The inverter in the Escape changes 12V DC to 120V AC, and only powers the standard outlets in the trailer (if you get the whole trailer option).

As to running the AC away from shore power, with any of the Escape standard battery/inverter combinations, you will not be able to power any of the stock air conditioners. You will need at least a 2100 - 2300 watt generator, and if you want to keep nearby campers happy, an inverter generator. Adding a Micro Air Easy Start to the air conditioner will let you use a smaller generator, but you will need far more wattage than the inverter (and batteries) can supply.

[Iowa Dave]

Hi Jon
Great explanation. Hope the summer is treating you well.
Iowa Dave

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by j900z

I thought I saw in one of the Escape videos that if you have the 1500w inverter option installed that you have to be able to disable the generator's inverter or get one without an inverter because the RV and generator's inverters cancel each other out or are not compatible. Is this the case?.

It is not possible to "disable" the inverter in an inverter-type generator set: it is the part which makes the output of the generator into the form of power that is needed (60 hertz alternating current at 120 volts). And as Jon explained, there can be no conflict between the inverter in the generator set and the inverter in the trailer because they are not used at the same time.

I can imagine some things that might have been said in a video which could be misinterpreted this way, and unfortunately it's even possible that someone actually said this in a video, but there's not much point in speculating. We could make sense of what was said... if we knew what was actually said. James, do you remember which video this was?

[j900z]

Thank you Jon and Brian for the explanation. I'll go over the videos I've watched recently and post it if I can find it. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

It is not possible to "disable" the inverter in an inverter-type generator set: it is the part which makes the output of the generator into the form of power that is needed (60 hertz alternating current at 120 volts). And as Jon explained, there can be no conflict between the inverter in the generator set and the inverter in the trailer because they are not used at the same time.

I can imagine some things that might have been said in a video which could be misinterpreted this way, and unfortunately it's even possible that someone actually said this in a video, but there's not much point in speculating. We could make sense of what was said... if we knew what was actually said. James, do you remember which video this was?

[Hawkeye Ed]

Originally Posted by j900z

I thought I saw in one of the Escape videos that if you have the 1500w inverter option installed that you have to be able to disable the generator's inverter or get one without an inverter because the RV and generator's inverters cancel each other out or are not compatible. Is this the case? Talking about the 5.0 with full solar package and installed inverter running the Dometic A/C. Would like to run the A/C away from shore power. Thanks.

As Vermilye and Brian said.

It’s not so much that you CAN’T operate a generator (any type) at the same time as your inverter, it’s that you wouldn’t WANT to do so. Why run some appliance from your under-seat inverter (which gets its power from your battery) at the same time you’re in turn charging the battery from your generator? There are electrical inefficiencies in both of those transfers that would result in having to run the generator even longer than normal to make up the difference.

That explains why most RVs with built-in inverters also have an automatic transfer switch that connects the RV’s 120 volt AC outlets to the generator or shore power when it’s available, alternately to the battery-powered inverter when not available. (The other reason for the transfer switch is that usually the battery-powered inverter has much less capacity than supplying devices with AC power directly from the shore power cord.)

As for running an air conditioner from an RV’s battery-powered inverter, that’s very unlikely. A/Cs draw so much current that most RV inverters couldn’t handle the load. And if the could, you’d run the battery down very quickly. That’s why Escape trailer RVs are wired so that air conditioners are only powered directly from the 120V shore power cord.

[Buzz505]

I have a Honda EU Inverter 2000i generator. Would that power a Coleman Mach 13,500 if it has easy start?

[M_canada]

Originally Posted by Buzz505

I have a Honda EU Inverter 2000i generator. Would that power a Coleman Mach 13,500 if it has easy start?

Yes. I installed a Micro-air on my Coleman Mach 10 NDQ this weekend and it works like a charm with a Honda EU2000i. I haven’t tried it in crazy heat yet, but it really doesn’t seem to hit the generator too hard at start-up, even while using the generator in eco mode.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by M_canada

Yes. I installed a Micro-air on my Coleman Mach 10 NDQ this weekend and it works like a charm with a Honda EU2000i. I haven’t tried it in crazy heat yet, but it really doesn’t seem to hit the generator too hard at start-up, even while using the generator in eco mode.

Wow that’s impressive. I know efficiency is improving but I never thought I’d hear that 13,500 BTU A/C’s we’re running off 2000W generators that are really rated at 1600W continuous. Had you tried running it on the generator before the install of the Micro-Air Easy Start?

[M_canada]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Wow that’s impressive. I know efficiency is improving but I never thought I’d hear that 13,500 BTU A/C’s we’re running off 2000W generators that are really rated at 1600W continuous. Had you tried running it on the generator before the install of the Micro-Air Easy Start?

Yes, I tried. It started up a few times, but then was intermittent once the AC had run a bit. I wasn’t able to get any successful startups while in eco mode.

[Buzz505]

Originally Posted by M_canada

Yes. I installed a Micro-air on my Coleman Mach 10 NDQ this weekend and it works like a charm with a Honda EU2000i. I haven’t tried it in crazy heat yet, but it really doesn’t seem to hit the generator too hard at start-up, even while using the generator in eco mode.

Thanks, I like the Coleman, seems to be rated as quieter.

[j900z]

No need to run the trailer inverter when the trailer is hooked up to an inverter generator. The generator is already providing AC electricity to the trailer.

The trailer inverter provides AC electricity to the trailer from the 12v DC batteries. Thus the trailer inverter should be "off" when you run your generator.

Thanks Jack, that makes sense.

[millybob]

Does the Houghton 9500 btu air conditioner have a soft start already? Reason I’m asking is my newly installed A2801 model runs fine on shore power but shuts down after the compressor kicks in. I made a neutral ground bonding plug to circumvent the floating neutral issue which works fine. I spoke with the progressive industries technical support person who really knew the product my issues. He stayed with me while I started my Honda eu2200i up, turned on the ac and watched the error code window. E0 122 v 0 amps to 1-2 amps with the fan running. PE2 was the only abnormal code after several failed attempts to run the ac compressor. The technical help said a bypass switch would not solve the problem after hearing (several times) the EMS-LCHW/30 box circuit go “tatatatatat” while the generator was straining for 1-1.5 seconds when the compressor was initially starting. I’m at 4800’ elevation. The unit works great on shore power cooling the trailer (2012 5.0 classic) while it’s in the sun at 93 degrees. Fairly quiet ( not like a split unit would be). Install went smoothly with a little help from a friend . Wiring was straightforward being pre-wired. Technical help was stumped just like me after I read the Houghton ac specs vs the Honda specs to him. He was pretty sure the reason was that the generator was underpowered though. While on shore power and the ac running, the EMS showed 9 amps with no issues. Maybe I’ll go by a friends house and see if his Honda 3000 will run the unit. I can’t believe my 15 amp generator want run an air conditioner rated at 1370 W and 12.6 A with a maximum power input of 1590 W and maximum current of 14.6 A. Is there something else I’m not seeing?

[scubarx]

I agree that your generator is under powered for your situation.


Your Honda eu2200i can produce a maximum of 2200 watts at or about sea level. You state your altitude is 4800 feet. At that altitude the efficiency of combustion is lower and thus; the efficiency of the generator’s engine drops (by roughly 3% per each 1000 ft).


Your 2200 watt generator is potentially producing less that 1900 watts at that altitude.

[MarkC]

Just tested my Honda 2200 with our new 19 and the standard 11k btu A/C - at 6600 feet where we live. It initially got it started, with the fan on low, but it would not keep it going. Fan to high shut the compressor down, and subsequent attempts with fan on low were hit or miss. What I noticed:
When running, it was pulling about 10A per my EMS display; fan only dropped to about 4A.
Fortunately, I don't anticipate needing A/C much at our higher altitudes, but as we travel to lower and warmer climates, an easy start might be needed.

[rotorbudd]

Originally Posted by MarkC

Just tested my Honda 2200 with our new 19 and the standard 11k btu A/C - at 6600 feet where we live. It initially got it started, with the fan on low, but it would not keep it going. Fan to high shut the compressor down, and subsequent attempts with fan on low were hit or miss. What I noticed:
When running, it was pulling about 10A per my EMS display; fan only dropped to about 4A.
Fortunately, I don't anticipate needing A/C much at our higher altitudes, but as we travel to lower and warmer climates, an easy start might be needed.

Just my experience, but it might help.
I've also got the Honda 2200 and it's running on propane. The A/C has an Easystart added.
Last fall at Mesa Verde NP temps were in the high 90's to low 100's, altitude around 6500 ft. We had no problems at all starting and running the A/C.
Before installing the easystart we had a lot of difficulty starting it even with no other loads on the generator.

[MarkC]

Originally Posted by rotorbudd

Just my experience, but it might help.
I've also got the Honda 2200 and it's running on propane. The A/C has an Easystart added.
Last fall at Mesa Verde NP temps were in the high 90's to low 100's, altitude around 6500 ft. We had no problems at all starting and running the A/C.
Before installing the easystart we had a lot of difficulty starting it even with no other loads on the generator.

Thanks for the feedback - nice to know the EasyStart has worked well in similar situations.

[Greatboatz3]

Originally Posted by millybob

Does the Houghton 9500 btu air conditioner have a soft start already? Reason I’m asking is my newly installed A2801 model runs fine on shore power but shuts down after the compressor kicks in. I made a neutral ground bonding plug to circumvent the floating neutral issue which works fine. I spoke with the progressive industries technical support person who really knew the product my issues. He stayed with me while I started my Honda eu2200i up, turned on the ac and watched the error code window. E0 122 v 0 amps to 1-2 amps with the fan running. PE2 was the only abnormal code after several failed attempts to run the ac compressor. The technical help said a bypass switch would not solve the problem after hearing (several times) the EMS-LCHW/30 box circuit go “tatatatatat” while the generator was straining for 1-1.5 seconds when the compressor was initially starting. I’m at 4800’ elevation. The unit works great on shore power cooling the trailer (2012 5.0 classic) while it’s in the sun at 93 degrees. Fairly quiet ( not like a split unit would be). Install went smoothly with a little help from a friend . Wiring was straightforward being pre-wired. Technical help was stumped just like me after I read the Houghton ac specs vs the Honda specs to him. He was pretty sure the reason was that the generator was underpowered though. While on shore power and the ac running, the EMS showed 9 amps with no issues. Maybe I’ll go by a friends house and see if his Honda 3000 will run the unit. I can’t believe my 15 amp generator want run an air conditioner rated at 1370 W and 12.6 A with a maximum power input of 1590 W and maximum current of 14.6 A. Is there something else I’m not seeing?

MillyBob,
I was disheartened to read your RecPro 9.5K BTU AC would not run on your Honda 2200 generator. That was a big selling point in my purchasing that AC. Once I became concerned I went to the Recpro website and noticed a change in the product description. I had downloaded the description in April when that AC was out of stock.
At that time under the heading "Details" it read: "PTC Soft Start technology allows for limited amps or generators in operation"
Currently the description reads:
Low amp draws allows for limited amps or generators in operation, rather than adding on a soft-start unit" I have no idea what the term PTC technology stood for.
Also the UPC code on the RP-AC2801changed. The older number ended in (03).
The current model ends in (10).
Please let us know if your generator was sufficient to run the AC at lower altitudes and If your friends 3000 BTU AC could run it.
I did call RecPro and spoke with a sales Rep who said I must email her the info and questions I have and she would pass it on. That I have just done. I called back to try another Rep and she put me on hold to speak with someone. She was told the the 9.5 AC dose not require Soft Start. When I emailed them I mentioned your problem and that others with a 13.5K BTU AC and soft start were able to run the AC. I also asked if a Micco Air soft start kit could be added to the 9.5. I'm sorry but it appears the answer to you question is that the 9.5 doesn't have soft start.
If any other 9.5 owners have any other information please let us know. I know that some were able to purchase a 9.5 before they were out of stock. Maybe those older units were different and had soft start.