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09-30-2020, 11:17 PM
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#101
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Is Karl going to go on tour to fix grey tanks?
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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10-01-2020, 02:02 AM
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#102
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas
Thanks but you deserve the credit. I installed a pipe hanger on the 3" to the black tank valve - you came up with the idea of installing one on the 1 1/2" pipe coming out of the grey tank.
Every time I look at the pic of your install, it reminds me that I should do the same to my trailer.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post286142
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Wow Tom Thankyou for your kind words ! She’s still solid ! Pat
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10-01-2020, 07:47 AM
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#103
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2019 5.0TA "Junior", 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi
Posts: 1,600
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I don't recall hardly ever hearing about leaking gray tank connections until recently, and most of the cases seem to be 2019 or 2020 units. Sure seems like something must have changed last year - the basic design and routing of the pipes hasn't changed. I wonder if it could be something as simple as a different sealant on the pipe fittings, or someone new on the production line who just wasn't doing a great job and messed up a few? Hopefully the overall number of trailers having this problem is still fairly small, but there are enough reports of the issue now to indicate something more than just a one-off problem.
__________________
David, Mary, and the cats
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10-01-2020, 10:22 AM
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#104
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Victoria, Texas
Trailer: 21C Jan. 15, 2021
Posts: 358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjreeves
While filling my grey tank today to check the integrity of the repair I made what do I find? Another leak on the grey tank! This is the shower pan input, a drip about every 4 seconds. Easy enough fix if it's just improperly sealed threads but good grief.
The hits just keep coming!
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If you don’t mind me asking, what is the size of the shower drain line?
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10-01-2020, 10:24 AM
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#105
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Victoria, Texas
Trailer: 21C Jan. 15, 2021
Posts: 358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas
Heh! That's not a leak - it's the new self draining grey tank feature!
Seriously, since you're going to cut the ABS pipe to get to the threads, now would a great time to install a Hepvo valve on the shower drain. No more backsplash because you left the shower drain plug out.
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Does the Hepvo valve eliminate the Need for the drain P-trap?
And is that the 1 1/2” size?
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10-01-2020, 11:09 AM
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#106
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmurphy02
I don't recall hardly ever hearing about leaking gray tank connections until recently, and most of the cases seem to be 2019 or 2020 units. Sure seems like something must have changed last year - the basic design and routing of the pipes hasn't changed. I wonder if it could be something as simple as a different sealant on the pipe fittings, or someone new on the production line who just wasn't doing a great job and messed up a few? Hopefully the overall number of trailers having this problem is still fairly small, but there are enough reports of the issue now to indicate something more than just a one-off problem.
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I agree. I've installed a lot of pipe fittings and normally they don't leak so this sudden spate of drips is unusual. Could be as simple as a new person thinking that hand tightening the fitting firmly was OK.
A nuisance for those affected but at least the cure is simple.
Ron
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10-01-2020, 12:21 PM
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#107
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcboyd
If you don’t mind me asking, what is the size of the shower drain line?
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All the grey tank threaded openings are 1 1/2" - grey tank drain, kitchen sink to grey tank, and shower / bath sink drain to grey tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcboyd
Does the Hepvo valve eliminate the Need for the drain P-trap?
And is that the 1 1/2” size?
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Yes and Yes.
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
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10-01-2020, 12:29 PM
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#108
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Trailer: E 21 2019 Tow Vehicle: 2019 4Runner Limited
Posts: 740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmurphy02
In a 5.0TA where do the drain lines for the kitchen and bathroom drains enter the tank - from above or do they go through the floor/shell and then have an elbow taking them into the tank from the side up high? If they go straight down into the tank, where can you see those connections?
Do those of you who have had various gray tank leaking issues have the spray foam insulation? I do, and it obscures being able to see much. I'm also wondering if it helps to stiffen things and dampen vibrations and minimize stress on the drain exit pipes and fittings.
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None of the connections are visible if your are plagued as I am with having the foam insulation. Since the water lines, gray tank, and drain piping are entombed in this stuff it is safe to assume that stress on the components is minimal.
Here is an image taken of the leak taken while camping in NYS. I wasn't intending on imaging the leak. I was taking some shots of the new upholstery we ordered for the dinette area. Our upholsterer was in the process of putting it in the trailer.
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10-01-2020, 12:41 PM
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#109
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Northern California, California
Trailer: 2019 Escape 21
Posts: 762
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Well, unfortunately we'rve joined this leaky club, too. We have a E21, picked up in April 2019 and recently, we just noticed a grey tank leak, as well. I first noticed it a few weeks ago when I was rinsing out our grey tank. When it filled up, I turned off the kitchen faucet, went out and then heard a sound. Then noticed a steady stream of water coming out of the bottom of the trailer, just left of the step. It lasted a few minutes and went away when I pulled the lever and drained the tank. And yes, we have the foam insulation so the water was coming out of a hole in the foam.
At first I thought, hummm, maybe there is some sort of overflow valve?? (But no, we got confirmation from ETI, there is no overflow valve - the grey tank overflow is supposed to come up into the shower pan). For us, our leak happens when the tank is at capacity, so we feel our compromise is probably some connection on the top somewhere. David (davidmurphy02), you wondered if this could be caused by traveling with a full grey tank, but we have never traveled with a full grey tank, other than rolling over to a dump station to empty it, in a campground. So, this could not be the case for us.
Since this is a warranty issue, we encourage anyone who is still under their 2 year warranty to closely watch your grey tank for leaks and to do the 'grey tank leak test' - just fill up the grey tank and see where the overflow water goes. If it goes into the shower stall, you're good. If not, please let ETI know. We are working with Escape now and so far, they have been very receptive to us. We plan to bring it up to them to fix next year (when the border opens up). Until then, we'll practice emptying at 2/3 capacity.
As for those of you who are considering getting the foam insulation option, in light of this, you may want to reconsider.... We love our trailer, in every other way but the foam does complicate plumbing issues and underbelly insulation is something that can be added on later. Some great threads here on DIY under belly insulation projects.
Really appreciate those here who have spoken up about this problem. Very helpful! Thanks, -Bea
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10-01-2020, 12:41 PM
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#110
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2019 5.0TA "Junior", 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi
Posts: 1,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telescopist
None of the connections are visible if your are plagued as I am with having the foam insulation. Since the water lines, gray tank, and drain piping are entombed in this stuff it is safe to assume that stress on the components is minimal.
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Well that kind of sucks. If the kitchen drain goes straight down into the gray tank, I wouldn't think the foam would be a factor there. Do you experience leaking just from using the kitchen drain, or only when the tank is full right up to the top? It's hard to imagine how bad that connection would have to be to leak just from water going down the drain....I can see water seeping out of a less than perfect connection if the tank was full.
__________________
David, Mary, and the cats
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10-01-2020, 01:21 PM
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#111
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Glenn hit the nail on the head, some of us remember Reace going around the country to fix maybe a dozen of trailers with the incorrect water supply line a couple of years ago. Now it seems to be the grey tank plumbing..............
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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10-01-2020, 02:09 PM
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#112
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Trailer: E 21 2019 Tow Vehicle: 2019 4Runner Limited
Posts: 740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
Glenn hit the nail on the head, some of us remember Reace going around the country to fix maybe a dozen of trailers with the incorrect water supply line a couple of years ago. Now it seems to be the grey tank plumbing..............
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I think it is time that the company publicly acknowledges there is a problem with the plumbing in at least the 2019 E21 models. Not only that I think they should develop a plan for those of us who are still covered by the 2 year warranty with respect to fixing this issue. Lammer lives 4,000 miles away from Chilliwack. I thought I had it bad at 2889 miles! What happens if/when the warranty period expires?
The problem isn't so much fixing the leak. Most plumbing repairs are pretty straight forward. The problem is accessing the source of the leak.
I've shown my trailer to two different couples. They are following this issue closely in order to see how the Escape ownership deals with it. I hope someone at Escape reads this stuff.
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10-01-2020, 02:42 PM
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#113
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2019 5.0TA "Junior", 2019 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi
Posts: 1,600
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I have only overfilled my gray tank one time, and I knew because it started overflowing up through the shower floor drain. However, I'll certainly be a lot more attentive to any possible drips or leaks on future trips just in case. Our trailer was built at the end of 2018, so far it sounds like most of the problems have been noticed in 2019 builds. Clearly there are a bunch of them now, I sure hope that the cause of these problems is identified for certain.
__________________
David, Mary, and the cats
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10-01-2020, 04:40 PM
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#114
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Victoria, Texas
Trailer: 21C Jan. 15, 2021
Posts: 358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas
All the grey tank threaded openings are 1 1/2" - grey tank drain, kitchen sink to grey tank, and shower / bath sink drain to grey tank.
Yes and Yes.
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From your pict it looks like you had to use a reducing collar on your Hepvo?
Watched a video and it looks like the valve is designed for thin wall pipe.
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10-01-2020, 05:01 PM
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#115
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcboyd
From your pict it looks like you had to use a reducing collar on your Hepvo?
Watched a video and it looks like the valve is designed for thin wall pipe.
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That's not a reducing collar - that's a 1-1/2 in. ABS DWV Hub x SJ Trap Adapter.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-1-...-100344620-_-N
The Hepvo uses SJ fittings - the ABS pipe on the drain requires the above adapter to convert from ABS pipe to SJ.
Here's the thread for the shower drain Hepvo install.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...21-a-9445.html
Here's the thread for the kitchen sink Hepvo install.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...all-12288.html
Notice that I bought the trailer 1/9/2017, took a week to get home, another week to get all the fittings ordered and received, and then documented the completed shower drain mod on 1/28/2017.
As I was towing the 21 home from Chilliwack, the constant thought in my head was - I HAVE TO GET RID OF THAT ^&*$ TRAP! One time of forgetting to put the shower drain plug back in before towing was enough for me!
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
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10-01-2020, 06:22 PM
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#116
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Victoria, Texas
Trailer: 21C Jan. 15, 2021
Posts: 358
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Looks like they changed the arrangement are going straight into the tank on the outbound strap side and p-trap is just after exiting the floor.
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10-01-2020, 06:31 PM
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#117
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcboyd
Looks like they changed the arrangement are going straight into the tank on the outbound strap side and p-trap is just after exiting the floor.
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That looks like a bad idea. With the piping straight between the shower drain and the grey tank, any movement creates stress on the piping and tank connection.
There's a reason why the previous Escape 21s had a 90 in the piping - it gave the piping a flex point. Probably why you're not hearing about early 21s having grey tank leaks.
Sometimes change isn't better.
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
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10-01-2020, 08:03 PM
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#118
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Is Karl going to go on tour to fix grey tanks?
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Right? Maybe they can hire Reace as a Service tech and fly him around the country in a helicopter.
Seriously, isn't it time Escape (Karl & Co.)acknowledges the problem here as Reace would have done?
__________________
"We gotta get as far away as we can!"
- Russell Casse, Independence Day
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10-01-2020, 08:25 PM
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#119
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Beloeil - South of Montreal, Quebec
Trailer: Escape 17B - 2019
Posts: 16
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Hello to all,
This summer, I experienced the same problem with my E17B which I bought in 2019. The PVC pipe got broken at the connection to the gray tank. I had it fixed and ETI refunded me the expenses incurred. For information purpose, I am enclosing an e-mail which I sent to Dave Warren the service and parts manager on what could have caused the breakage. if this can be of any value to the discussion.
Quote-------------------
Good Afternoon Dave,
According to the feedback I received from the technician, there is a disequilibrium in the weight and length of the black tank ABS pipe 2 inches v/s the gray tank ABS pipe 1.5 inch which are both connected to the discharge.
While driving, the flexible hanger/support installed originally will create vibrations and a heavy pressure at the end of the gray water ABS pipe connecting to the tank, thus causing it to break.
Thus, his recommendation to install a rigid hanger/support to the existing installation.
Time will tell if he is right in his thinking process.
Regards and keep well.
Félix.
Unquote--------------------------------
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10-01-2020, 09:24 PM
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#120
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Victoria, Texas
Trailer: 21C Jan. 15, 2021
Posts: 358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas
That looks like a bad idea. With the piping straight between the shower drain and the grey tank, any movement creates stress on the piping and tank connection.
There's a reason why the previous Escape 21s had a 90 in the piping - it gave the piping a flex point. Probably why you're not hearing about early 21s having grey tank leaks.
Sometimes change isn't better.
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And the p-trap starts immediately after exiting the underside not allowing for cutting or removal.
Looks like a flexible coupling is in order in the straight run with one hanger to remove the strain.
Hopefully with enough bitchin they will address the new ones coming on line.
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